• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

POTUS Donald Trump just lost my vote for reelection

Status
Not open for further replies.
I stand by my statement. I was quite clear in what I wrote.

Right, I note nobody here really addresses anything other than what they goad others into.

In no way am I not suggesting that Jesus did not or does not forgive sins. What I am suggesting is it is not the civil magistrates duty to forgive sin or demonstrate grace though I am not opposed to mercy. Do you think it Just if a person murders another goes before a civil magistrate and they say I forgive you? What kinda justice is that? I expect the Judge to execute sentence. Forgiveness is not between man and magistrates but between man and God.

The Scribes and Pharisees were not the Civil Magistrates who had the authority to condemn to death under Roman authority. And clearly, the OT requires multiple witnesses in due process.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
. Do you think it Just if a person murders another goes before a civil magistrate and they say I forgive you?

The church is not the government. The government is not the church. The ancient country of Israel was a theocracy and it no longer exists. The United States is not a theocracy and never has been.
 
The church is not the government. The government is not the church. The ancient country of Israel was a theocracy and it no longer exists. The United States is not a theocracy and never has been.

The church is true Israel and no I am not advocating replacement theology. Likewise, we are to be founded on Christ Jesus [the very faith exampled by Peter] and be on the offensive, that is, attacking the very gates of Hades. For the church to prescribe any contrary principle not based on Scripture in our society from which develops societal laws isn't a light by which to guide the nation. And the very act rejects the very principles Protestants profess in the 5 Solas.

I actually agree with you in the main thrust behind your post. However, most churches today won't speak up politically or even endorse a political candidate because of the Johnson amendment which strips non profits from tax exemption if they endorse a political candidate in the political arena. The church therefore has been stripped from her duty to speak to America's conscience. She has instead taken a bribe remaining silent rather than boldly proclaiming God's word in all areas of life including the political.
 
Last edited:
The church is not the government. The government is not the church. The ancient country of Israel was a theocracy and it no longer exists. The United States is not a theocracy and never has been.

Just curious, do you realize America's government is framed on the Presbyterian church's government with all her checks and balances? Are you aware that 2/3rds of the soldiers that died on the battle field of the Revolutionary were Calvinist? Is it any wonder that those "The People" were represented by servants which used the very principles of the Protestant faith in order to frame this country?

Regarding any form of government theocracy or otherwise, every Utopia has failed ever since Adam was cast out of Eden when and where Eden was guarded by a flaming sword.

The very principles by which I am advocating I believe can't be debated as non Scriptural. And they will be ushered in one day under a true theocracy. It is inevitable.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
The church therefore has been stripped from her duty to speak to America's conscience.

I totally disagree. The church is to influence the culture. Politics is downstream from culture. If Christians are salt and light in the culture, then it will flow to some extent into politics.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
And they will be ushered in one day under a true theocracy.

I am not a premillennialist. I believe when Jesus returns that this present universe will be replaced with the new heavens and earth, as the Apostle Peter wrote about.
 
I am not a premillennialist. I believe when Jesus returns that this present universe will be replaced with the new heavens and earth, as the Apostle Peter wrote about.

I am not a pre mill either. I am Amil believing that we'll be here until completion [everyone of the Elect accounted for]. And I acknowledge you rightly state that there will be heaven and earth anewed.

As an Amil I believe God is personifying Evil at this very time. And the very body of Evil will be removed one day as promised by God.

All this is simply repeating. America doesn't have the heart for righteousness to "KILL" the Canaanites just as historical/biblical Israel failed to fulfill the command by God.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Democrats are worse, look at their policies. I vote the party not the man, because no democrats can hold onto traditional American good values, and of republicans many hold onto trditional American good values. So when you put them both in the balance, sure they are both wanting, but the democrats sins bear a far greater weight and the scale tips against them.
I dont want to see more socialism and bigger government that is oppressive against the common sense good things that made our country great.

For an example, right now Pelosi is warming up to a guaranteed minimum income for all maybe starting at 24,000 per yr ($2000 per month), that formerly only the socialists desired.

So if you want a greater governmental control of people's lives and freedoms, then vote for the democrats, so that we will be less free than we are, not saying we are all that free, but it just gets worse and worse with them..
 
I totally disagree. The church is to influence the culture. Politics is downstream from culture. If Christians are salt and light in the culture, then it will flow to some extent into politics.

Right, Prophets never warned her kings. Jesus never rebuked the Sadducee, Scribes and Pharisees [being cynical].

I have no ideal as to what people here consider salt and light. Retracting within our own walls while complacently allowing lawmakers to develop contrary laws isn't a light I am familiar with. One of the reoccurring themes repeated throughout the OT given to Israel was not to take upon the culture of surrounding heathen nations. And a light ought warn others approaching of the passing dangers. Our laws are today being dictated by the culture. I see little evidence today that the church has an influence. She's silent enjoying her tax free exemption. Coffee and bagels in the Kiosk and please stop by your book store on the way out. Thank you for attending.
 
Democrats are worse, look at their policies. I vote the party not the man, because no democrats can hold onto traditional American good values, and of republicans many hold onto trditional American good values. So when you put them both in the balance, sure they are both wanting, but the democrats sins bear a far greater weight and the scale tips against them.
I dont want to see more socialism and bigger government that is oppressive against the common sense good things that made our country great.

For an example, right now Pelosi is warming up to a guaranteed minimum income for all maybe starting at 24,000 per yr ($2000 per month), that formerly only the socialists desired.

So if you want a greater governmental control of people's lives and freedoms, then vote for the democrats, so that we will be less free than we are, not saying we are all that free, but it just gets worse and worse with them..

The Lib/Dem party is Godless. Even recently writing out prayer from within their affairs. Likewise, Conservative and Christian are not synonymous. My party [Constitutional Republicans] is becoming nearly unrecognizable as time goes by. The very principles our nation was founded on and our party is being as quickly lost as the Left can rewrite history.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Right, Prophets never warned her kings. Jesus never rebuked the Sadducee, Scribes and Pharisees [being cynical].

I have no ideal as to what people here consider salt and light. Retracting within our own walls while complacently allowing lawmakers to develop contrary laws isn't a light I am familiar with. One of the reoccurring themes repeated throughout the OT given to Israel was not to take upon the culture of surrounding heathen nations. And a light ought warn others approaching of the passing dangers. Our laws are today being dictated by the culture. I see little evidence today that the church has an influence. She's silent enjoying her tax free exemption. Coffee and bagels in the Kiosk and please stop by your book store on the way out. Thank you for attending.

Note v6
No where in this New Covenant Christ established, are we told to take up arms and fight against government and the wicked.
The just and righteous man does not resist the wicked by using violence as is done unto them even as they are murdered.
We leave this judgement and punishment to God. We don't become vigilantes.
This is a concept I have been thinking more about. I also though would have no problem fighting in the military for the government of the US or as a policeman as that is an authority instituted by God

James 5:5-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.
Be Patient and Persevering
7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.
 

MartyF

Well-Known Member
Please entertain my attempt to explain this. If you were hiding Jews and Nazis came to the door and asked if you were hiding Jews would you lie?

Yes, I would lie and lying would not be a sin.

You’re seeing sin where there is none. You’re making up stuff so that you can seem righteous like a Pharisee.
 

MartyF

Well-Known Member
Do you believe we should hold a seat in and be part of the United Nations? If not why not? Why shouldn't we vote for or against murdering Jews?

How Pharisean of you to make blanket judgements about whole groups of people in a vague unsubstantiated manner. Who died and made you God?
 
Yes, I would lie and lying would not be a sin.

You’re seeing sin where there is none. You’re making up stuff so that you can seem righteous like a Pharisee.

Right, Islam too believes it is righteous to lie in order to mislead the infidels to further the cause of Islam. Seemingly, you too don't believe it is a sin to lie when it serves your purposes? Question, if you were in a court to testify that you're not harboring enemies of the state [and you were] do you think it right to perjure yourself?
 
Last edited:

KenH

Well-Known Member
Seemingly, you too don't believe it is a sin to lie when it serves your purposes?

“But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. And she said, “True, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from. And when the gate was about to be closed at dark, the men went out. I do not know where the men went. Pursue them quickly, for you will overtake them.” - Joshua‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.” - Hebrews‬ ‭11:31‬ ‭ESV‬‬
 
“But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. And she said, “True, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from. And when the gate was about to be closed at dark, the men went out. I do not know where the men went. Pursue them quickly, for you will overtake them.” - Joshua‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.” - Hebrews‬ ‭11:31‬ ‭ESV‬‬

So she was saved by faith and elected into the hall of fame of faithful remnant in Hebrews and not by her lies. I see nothing reinforcing her lies were righteous.
And your point was what?

Note I never said our sins may not be forgiven. However, seemingly not many here are being led to repentance because they believe sins such as lying are not always a sin but righteous.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top