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power to tread on serpents...
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Read John 3:14-16. IMO you are calling Christ a liar. Either that or your reading comprehension has not yet reached that of a fifth grader.
plain_n_simple
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And reading through to these verses we see the power working...20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Which is why those who try to understand spiritual things with the carnal mind, like treading on serpents healing the sick are foolishness to unbelievers.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Which is why those who try to understand spiritual things with the carnal mind, like treading on serpents healing the sick are foolishness to unbelievers.
You are getting closer now.
As Moses lifted up the serpent...So Christ must be lifted up.
That is a simile. The serpent is compared to Christ, a direct comparison.
Christ is compared to the serpent.
As faith was put in the serpent to be healed so faith must be put in Christ to be healed/saved.
But you said:
This is not what Christ said. It is the opposite or contrary to what Christ said. You are contradicting the salvation that Christ is offering.
No, I said the serpent represents the sin that Christ took on the cross! Without him taking our sins to the cross...we would not have salvation!
YOu are saying Christ is the serpent! I am saying the serpent is our sin on the cross! He judged our sin on the cross! What color was the serpent and what does that color represent in scripture?
I have the mind of chrsit, per the Bible, I have the HS, and the annoiting to know what is true, per the bible, spiritual darkness is in those who claim to have the power of God to heal, do miracles yada yada, but instead follow teachers/preachers who get revelations from satan, not God!
did jesus become a sinner and had to get born again from the Cross? THAT is a "revelation" truth in Charasmatic circles!
Are you saying Jesus did not take on our sins? I never said he had to get saved again!
I am saying what Jesus said. You don't believe what Jesus said, but want to read into the passage something else.
As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness...
So must Christ be lifted be up.
The meaning is clear. It doesn't say anything about sin on the cross. You are reading that into the passage. Jesus never mentioned that. Why are you going against the words of Christ?
The Bible teaches many doctrines: propitiation, atonement, harmartiology, and so much more. The question is what is being taught in these verses: John 3:14-16. Christ teaches nothing about sin here. Elsewhere there is plenty taught, but not here.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
What happened? A bronze serpent was put on a pole, lifted up, and all those that looked upon it in faith were healed, or saved from their deadly affliction.
What happened on the cross. Christ was lifted up the cross (as the serpent was), and all who look upon him in faith (as they had to do with the serpent), will be saved (this time spiritually, forever or eternally saved).
As the serpent was lifted up so must the Son of man be lifted up.
Those are the words of Christ.
Deeper teaching! That is what Charismatics claim. Here is an example of deeper teaching by Kenneth Copeland given by John MacArthur in his book "Charismatic Chaos."
And this is the way that you also choose to interpret scripture.
So you do not learn deeper meanings of scripture? Today I might not understand a scripture but next week...the HOly Spirit teaches me what it means! And other scriptures will bring light to that scripture to bring out a meaning!
I am sorry if all you get is a surface understanding! Unsaved people can get that!
There is no deeper meaning here.
Jesus said that he was that serpent, and all that looked to him in faith would be saved. That is the meaning of the verse.
If you want to expand on that theme that is your prerogative. That is not a deeper meaning. That is adding to the text. There is only one meaning of this text--the correct meaning, and you don't have it. The serpent does not represent sin or judgment, or any other related thing. It represents Christ and only Christ.
It is your right to call into question the integrity of Christ, to insist that he is not telling the truth, to infer that he is lying, to tell God that you know better than He does, but that is blasphemy.
Christ Himself interpreted the text. There is no deeper meaning. If I were you I would take Christ at his word and stop insisting that you are right and Christ is wrong.
The problem is that Jesus already have us what that meant and was referring to being, but your deeper meanings are different than his were!
Think I would stay with God Incarnates version of events!
Kenneth Copeland said the HS told Him jesus was a sinner who died on the cross, and had to get born again in hell, and that we are just as he was, gods...
is THAT deeper insights/meanings?
I did not say that! I said Jesus took on our sins! He carried our sins to the cross and that is where they were judged! We have to look to what Jesus DID on the cross for us! That is what the serpent represents! SIN JUDGED!
He said:
As the serpent was lifted up; so must the Son of man be lifted up.
--He identifies himself with the serpent. There is nothing else in that verse that Christ can identify himself with, unless you are reading something into it that isn't there. You are accusing Christ of lying.
I am not the one interpreting it. Christ already interpreted it. You don't accept the interpretation of Christ. That is a pity.