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power to tread on serpents...
- Thread starter awaken
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I don't deny what the Scriptures say at all.I call that denying what the scriptures say! Unbelief!
1. There is the command to "rightly divide the Word of truth."
That you don't do.
2. There is the hermeneutical principle of context. You ignore context.
When you avoid these basic principles you can make the Bible say anything you want it to say. I and others have explained this to you before.
The Bible says in Psalm 14:1 "There is no God." Do you believe that too?
Why not? You ignore context elsewhere.
Well..your preconceived understanding comes from man's teaching, right? So what makes your interpretation better? I am sharing all the scriptures that serpents are mentioned in the Bible.
So you like others want to ridicule instead of addressing the scriptures!
Are you saying that the disciples were sent out with that authority/power from Jesus back then, or that you and others sre sent forth with same power right now, to trend on the devil and his works?
You are intitled to your opinion! That is what I take your post as...just your opinion! I do not hold ill will toward you for thinking wrong of me!I don't deny what the Scriptures say at all.
1. There is the command to "rightly divide the Word of truth."
That you don't do.
2. There is the hermeneutical principle of context. You ignore context.
When you avoid these basic principles you can make the Bible say anything you want it to say. I and others have explained this to you before.
The Bible says in Psalm 14:1 "There is no God." Do you believe that too?
Why not? You ignore context elsewhere.
This thread is about serpents and the power to tread on them! You are welcome to comment on scriptures...
I don't deny what the Scriptures say at all.
1. There is the command to "rightly divide the Word of truth."
That you don't do.
2. There is the hermeneutical principle of context. You ignore context.
When you avoid these basic principles you can make the Bible say anything you want it to say. I and others have explained this to you before.
The Bible says in Psalm 14:1 "There is no God." Do you believe that too?
Why not? You ignore context elsewhere.
And that is the problem here. The poster of the op is completely inept at understanding proper interpretation of scripture. It has led to some very aberrant understandings.
Luke 10 is speaking to the 70 and they returned to report to Jesus what happened...the devils were subject to them.Are you saying that the disciples were sent out with that authority/power from Jesus back then, or that you and others sre sent forth with same power right now, to trend on the devil and his works?
In Mark 16 it says we that believe and are baptized shall be saved. It also says these signs shall follow them that believe. They shall cast out devils..shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them etc.
So in Luke it is to the 70, but Mark is to those that believe the gospel preached by the church.
saturneptune
New Member
Here is some common sense which totally escapes all you magic act people. On a mission trip to Eastern Kentucky last year, we went up to a house. He man brought out a box with a rattlesnake in it, and asked if I would stick my hand inside to test my faith. I wished him a good day and went to the next door.Well..your preconceived understanding comes from man's teaching, right? So what makes your interpretation better? I am sharing all the scriptures that serpents are mentioned in the Bible.
So you like others want to ridicule instead of addressing the scriptures!
The references to snakes in the NT are for a specific purpose. The purpose is not to give a general command for everyone to dance and play with poisonous snakes. I cannot believe this has to be explained to a grown adult.
..and some posters want to ridicule the other posters instead of contributing to the proper understanding or debate of it!And that is the problem here. The poster of the op is completely inept at understanding proper interpretation of scripture. It has led to some very aberrant understandings.
Has anyone on this thread indicated that we should tempt God by picking up snakes?Here is some common sense which totally escapes all you magic act people. On a mission trip to Eastern Kentucky last year, we went up to a house. He man brought out a box with a rattlesnake in it, and asked if I would stick my hand inside to test my faith. I wished him a good day and went to the next door.
The references to snakes in the NT are for a specific purpose. The purpose is not to give a general command for everyone to dance and play with poisonous snakes. I cannot believe this has to be explained to a grown adult.
I would have walked away also!
My reference to the snakes are what Jesus called the pharisees! What Jesus said to the 70.
saturneptune
New Member
Reverend Mitchell is correct. You people have lost your ever loving minds. You make the RCC look compared to it...and some posters want to ridicule the other posters instead of contributing to the proper understanding or debate of it!
..and some posters want to ridicule the other posters instead of contributing to the proper understanding or debate of it!
You need to learn 1+1 before you try to get a hold of calculus.
Luke 10 is speaking to the 70 and they returned to report to Jesus what happened...the devils were subject to them.
In Mark 16 it says we that believe and are baptized shall be saved. It also says these signs shall follow them that believe. They shall cast out devils..shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them etc.
So in Luke it is to the 70, but Mark is to those that believe the gospel preached by the church.
problem with that is there there is NO documented evidence in past 1800 years pass since John died that ANY were able to exercise those gifts for the Lord!
Do you handle rattlesnakes, or drink deadlytoxin? At least the people down south take it literally, and many die from snake bites, why did they die?
You need to learn 1+1 before you try to get a hold of calculus.
the problem is that those taught this garbage from the gurus like a Copeland/hinn/hagin always can claim either 'they are modern prophets/apsotles, with revealtion knowledge,", or "the HS showed me those truths!"
the problem is that those taught this garbage from the gurus like a Copeland/hinn/hagin always can claim either 'they are modern prophets/apsotles, with revealtion knowledge,", or "the HS showed me those truths!"
Well all we can do is show them the truth. If they want to ignore basic rules of interpretation then its on them.
Snakes are snakes and are not to be allegorized away.And that is the problem here. The poster of the op is completely inept at understanding proper interpretation of scripture. It has led to some very aberrant understandings.
Look at it this way. Jesus was speaking to his disciples. This is what he said:
Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
--Context: he is speaking to the eleven. What was the occasion?
Their unbelief! He rebukes them. "Because they believed not them which had seen him after he had risen."
After the Great Commission is given he tells them:
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
--At first they did not believe. They were rebuked. Now they believe.
This is directed to the eleven.
Now what are these eleven thinking? Are they thinking of the Book of Revelation which hasn't been written yet? Are thy thinking of serpents in Moses time? Are they thinking in allegorical terminology?
NO! Not at all. They are thinking literally.
They had cast out devils previously; they would do it again.
The time would come when they would speak in other languages; they knew of the prophecy.
They had already healed sick; they would do it again.
God had already given them protection; he would give it to them again, even if it meant protection from deadly serpents and poisonous substances, which the pagans would certainly try to give them and kill them therewith.
Now if you are going to claim this for yourself go ahead and give us a demonstration. There was a deadly snake that crawled up Paul's arm. He shook it off into the fire with no harm, but the pagans, who thought he would die, then considered him a god, when he didn't. If you would like to give us a like demonstration, be our guest.
Well, since I do not believe they are literal snakes! I will leave that up to you!Snakes are snakes and are not to be allegorized away.
Look at it this way. Jesus was speaking to his disciples. This is what he said:
Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
--Context: he is speaking to the eleven. What was the occasion?
Their unbelief! He rebukes them. "Because they believed not them which had seen him after he had risen."
After the Great Commission is given he tells them:
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
--At first they did not believe. They were rebuked. Now they believe.
This is directed to the eleven.
Now what are these eleven thinking? Are they thinking of the Book of Revelation which hasn't been written yet? Are thy thinking of serpents in Moses time? Are they thinking in allegorical terminology?
NO! Not at all. They are thinking literally.
They had cast out devils previously; they would do it again.
The time would come when they would speak in other languages; they knew of the prophecy.
They had already healed sick; they would do it again.
God had already given them protection; he would give it to them again, even if it meant protection from deadly serpents and poisonous substances, which the pagans would certainly try to give them and kill them therewith.
Now if you are going to claim this for yourself go ahead and give us a demonstration. There was a deadly snake that crawled up Paul's arm. He shook it off into the fire with no harm, but the pagans, who thought he would die, then considered him a god, when he didn't. If you would like to give us a like demonstration, be our guest.
As far as the disciples thinking...they would probably think back to what Jesus said in Luke 10!
Maybe you can back up the taking poison in scriptures since you used Paul and the snake to illustrate the serpent!
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Well..your preconceived understanding comes from man's teaching, right? So what makes your interpretation better? I am sharing all the scriptures that serpents are mentioned in the Bible.
So you like others want to ridicule instead of addressing the scriptures!
He has 1900 years on his side. You have 113. Hmmmmmmm
Thomas Helwys
New Member
problem with that is there there is NO documented evidence in past 1800 years pass since John died that ANY were able to exercise those gifts for the Lord!
Do you handle rattlesnakes, or drink deadlytoxin? At least the people down south take it literally, and many die from snake bites, why did they die?
But even they are not totally stupid. Ten percent of rattlesnake bites are fatal, while 25% of water moccasin bites are. The snake handlers don't handle moccasins!
Ezekiel 2
6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.
Psalm 58
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
Psalm 140
1 <Musician, A Psalm of David.] Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;
2 Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they gathered together for war.
3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.
4 Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from the violent man; who have purposed to overthrow my goings.
6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.
Psalm 58
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
Psalm 140
1 <Musician, A Psalm of David.] Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;
2 Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they gathered together for war.
3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.
4 Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from the violent man; who have purposed to overthrow my goings.
You guys can go ahead and ignore the scriptures...
But as We Begin To Fulfill The Commission That God Has Given Us Then Signs Will Follow - Mark 16:17-20.
These signs were not to follow the Apostle, prophet, and evangelist only. They were to follow THEM THAT BELIEVED.
Notice in verse 20 that the signs followed AFTER they began to preach everywhere. Don't wait for the signs and then preach. Preach and the the signs will follow. God ALWAYS confirms His Word with signs following.
Examples:
Matthew 10:7-8.
Luke 9:1-6, 11.
Acts 8:5-8.
Acts 14:7-10.
Romans 15:19.
But as We Begin To Fulfill The Commission That God Has Given Us Then Signs Will Follow - Mark 16:17-20.
These signs were not to follow the Apostle, prophet, and evangelist only. They were to follow THEM THAT BELIEVED.
Notice in verse 20 that the signs followed AFTER they began to preach everywhere. Don't wait for the signs and then preach. Preach and the the signs will follow. God ALWAYS confirms His Word with signs following.
Examples:
Matthew 10:7-8.
Luke 9:1-6, 11.
Acts 8:5-8.
Acts 14:7-10.
Romans 15:19.