Practical Antinomians?

[Pastor_Bob]

In perusing another thread, one of our brothers made reference to antinomianism. As I was contemplating his thoughts, my mind asked a searching question. In doctrine, I would adamantly reject antinomianism; but, in practice, am I guilty of holding to this false philosophy? In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins? I know and have even preached Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

This was definitely a time of introspection. It may not garner a discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[One Baptism]

In perusing another thread, one of our brothers made reference to antinomianism. As I was contemplating his thoughts, my mind asked a searching question. In doctrine, I would adamantly reject antinomianism; but, in practice, am I guilty of holding to this false philosophy? In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins? I know and have even preached Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

This was definitely a time of introspection. It may not garner a discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

With ya brother.

Also, are we 'evolutionist' in Gospel? Another good question. How does faith come? Over millions of years of works? Or is it rather a gift, and instanteous receiving, as surely as God creating the new heart, perhaps you may also consider this sermon, powerful - Creation or Evolution, Which?

 

[Yeshua1]

In perusing another thread, one of our brothers made reference to antinomianism. As I was contemplating his thoughts, my mind asked a searching question. In doctrine, I would adamantly reject antinomianism; but, in practice, am I guilty of holding to this false philosophy? In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins? I know and have even preached Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

This was definitely a time of introspection. It may not garner a discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

At times though, both jesus and paul were accused by some of teaching freedom to sin, but really both of them were teaching to us what it meant to not being under the law now, but under grace!

 

[BobRyan]

In perusing another thread, one of our brothers made reference to antinomianism. As I was contemplating his thoughts, my mind asked a searching question. In doctrine, I would adamantly reject antinomianism; but, in practice, am I guilty of holding to this false philosophy? In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins? I know and have even preached Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

This was definitely a time of introspection. It may not garner a discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

First step is to be willing to admit to the Bible definition of what sin is -- 1 John 3:4 says it is "transgression of the LAW" .

In Jer 31:31-33 the New Covenant known to Jeremiah writes the "LAW of God on the heart and mind".

In Eph 6:2 Paul says that the "first commandment with a promise" in that LAW - is the 5th commandment.

So then - the Bible defines what sin is.

The second step as you point out is the question of our own sin even after accepting Christ.

Romans 8:4-10 says that the lost "do not submit to the law of God neither indeed CAN they" .

So then as a born-again Christian we are not having that problem. Rather we are having the problem of our own free will choosing sin to one degree or another.

 

[BobRyan]

At times though, both jesus and paul were accused by some of teaching freedom to sin, but really both of them were teaching to us what it meant to not being under the law now, but under grace!

As Paul points out in Romans 6 it is utter falsehood to claim that he was preaching "taking God's name in vain" or any other sin "because we are under grace and not under law".

11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[kyredneck]

in practice, am I guilty of holding to this false philosophy? In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins?

With ya brother.

Every believer should relate with Pastor Bob on this, 'the bold sin' has always been a very real and ever present danger for all the saints, OT and NT:

13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; Let them not have dominion over me: Then shall I be upright, And I shall be clear from great transgression. Ps 19

13 For ye, brethren, were called for freedom; only use not your freedom for an occasion to the flesh, but through love be servants one to another. Gal 5

This is probably the biggest problem I have with the Calvinist Lord Salvation theology, they don't acknowledge how normal and frequent these sins are in the everyday life of Christians. Their doctrine of 'Perseverance' (in lieu of 'Preservation') really means that if one has truly savingly sincerely genuinely believed they will grow to be above these 'intentional sins'. If they don't, they're 'antichrists'.

 

[HankD]

Some indeed accuse those of us who speak of the freedom grace as antinomians because they themselves are those who NEED the law and so believe therefore all need it.

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

And so like the pharisee in the temple they boast in their keeping of the law as their justification rather than the mercy of God and the blood atonement as a robe of righteousness.
.
Those of us born of the Spirit are free from the law - you need not command a sheep to stay out of the hog wallow.

Those born of the Spirit, We are led of the Spirit. The Spirit leads no one into the deadly sin of self-justification

Luke 18
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Decades ago I heard an "old fashion" preacher say this and at first it shocked me...

Preacher:"Only sinners will be in heaven".
Listener:"What about all the good people?"
Preacher:"All the good people died and went to hell"

.

 

[Yeshua1]

As Paul points out in Romans 6 it is utter falsehood to claim that he was preaching "taking God's name in vain" or any other sin "because we are under grace and not under law".

11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

When we are saved by Grace, we will live in grace, but the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, any other way is doomed to fail and is foolish!

 

[Darrell C]

In perusing another thread, one of our brothers made reference to antinomianism. As I was contemplating his thoughts, my mind asked a searching question. In doctrine, I would adamantly reject antinomianism; but, in practice, am I guilty of holding to this false philosophy? In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins? I know and have even preached Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

This was definitely a time of introspection. It may not garner a discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

I think there are two perspectives we could consider:

1. Anti-Law in regards to the Covenant, which we see Paul was absolutely antinomian;

2. Anti-Law in regards to the will of God, which Paul was not.


That you sin, Pastor Bob, doesn't mean you are antinomian, it simply means you are not sinless. God already knew you wouldn't be when He died for you.

We don't want to overthink this, in my view, because it's seldom we see someone on the forums who is truly antinomian, to the point where they actually think its okay to sin.


God bless.

 

[One Baptism]

...1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

And so like the pharisee in the temple they boast in their keeping of the law as their justification rather than the mercy of God and the blood atonement as a robe of righteousness.
.
Those of us born of the Spirit are free from the law - you need not command a sheep to stay out of the hog wallow...
.

"... free from the law", as in the Ten Commandments, to be obeyed, in Christ, by the Holy Spirit, through Faith? Not so. We, as Christians, those in Christ, are "free from the law of sin and death", not the law of righteousness, the Ten Commandments:

Romans 8:2 KJB - For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Sin is the transgression of the Law [not the Law itself, Romans 7:7 KJB What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.]:

1 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
​

Death, the final result of sin:

Genesis 2:17 KJB - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Proverbs 8:36 KJB - But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Ezekiel 18:4 KJB - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20 KJB - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

James 1:15 KJB - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
​

Psalms 119:172 KJB - My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Isaiah 48:18 KJB - O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
​

Free from the condemnation [Romans 3:19 KJB - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.], in Christ Jesus, yes, as long as one abides in Christ. That is the difference.

 

[BobRyan]

This is probably the biggest problem I have with the Calvinist Lord Salvation theology, they don't acknowledge how normal and frequent these sins are in the everyday life of Christians. Their doctrine of 'Perseverance' (in lieu of 'Preservation') really means that if one has truly savingly sincerely genuinely believed they will grow to be above these 'intentional sins'. If they don't, they're 'antichrists'.

Maybe they are trying to deal with 1 John 3:4-12

 

[thatbrian]

In perusing another thread, one of our brothers made reference to antinomianism. As I was contemplating his thoughts, my mind asked a searching question. In doctrine, I would adamantly reject antinomianism; but, in practice, am I guilty of holding to this false philosophy? In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins? I know and have even preached Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

This was definitely a time of introspection. It may not garner a discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

Try to live by (under) God's Law and you will be crushed into dust. Live by (under) His grace and you will be finally free to obey.

Christ fulfilled the Covenant of Works on your behalf. "In Him" we are as righteous as if we had. On our own, we are incapable of law-obedience. If biblical history has not made that abundantly clear to you, then Christ's Sermon on the Mount should have.

 

[One Baptism]

Try to live by (under) God's Law and you will be crushed into dust. Live by (under) His grace and you will be finally free to obey.

Christ fulfilled the Covenant of Works on your behalf. "In Him" we are as righteous as if we had. On our own, we are incapable of law-obedience. If biblical history has not made that abundantly clear to you, then Christ's Sermon on the Mount should have.

To "live" under God's grace [provided in Christ Jesus, who shed His blood and died to save us from our sins], is to obey God, in repentance, and to keep his Commandments in love for what God provided, John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB:

Jude 1:4 KJB - For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:5 KJB - And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John 3:6 KJB - Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:7 KJB - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8 KJB - He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 KJB - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 KJB - In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.​

Antinominians, redefine the Law of God these days, and redefine grace.

Herein is Grace, He provided the Lamb, bought them, and brought them out, God saves in His mercy:

Exodus 20:1 KJB - And God spake all these words, saying,

Exodus 20:2 KJB - I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.​

Herein is obedience in love for that Grace:

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
​

Repentance is turing back to God, in loving obedience.

Repentance is not claiming to turn back to God in all pioints except one - Exodus 20:8-11 KJB.

Romans 6:1 KJB - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?​

 

[BobRyan]

Try to live by (under) God's Law and you will be crushed into dust. Live by (under) His grace and you will be finally free to obey.

Christ fulfilled the Covenant of Works on your behalf. "In Him" we are as righteous as if we had. On our own, we are incapable of law-obedience. If biblical history has not made that abundantly clear to you, .

How "odd" since Pastor Bob said nothing at all about trying to keep God's Law apart from the Gospel - that the first place some folks want to go in their response is "keep the Law without the Gospel? What a bad idea!".

Nothing in the OP said "without the Gospel" nothing said "apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit" -- yet some folks go their anyway.

Just as the "Baptist Confession of Faith " section 19 points to obedience in the context of Grace -- so in the OP we have "In practice, am I prone to allow sin to creep in knowing that God's grace is sufficient to cleanse those sins?"

 

[HankD]

From post # 7

Those of us born of the Spirit are free from the law - you need not command a sheep to stay out of the hog wallow.

Those born of the Spirit, We are led of the Spirit. The Spirit leads no one into the deadly sin of self-justification

There is a place in the NT which speaks of a good man: Barnabas

Acts 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Not because he kept the Law of Moses

 

[BobRyan]

From post # 7

Those of us born of the Spirit are free from the law - you need not command a sheep to stay out of the hog wallow.

Then Paul writes to "no Christians"???

Paul contradicts that statement in 2Tim 3:16 saying that all scripture is for our doctrine and correction just when your argument is God does not write that scripture for us.

Scripture like "Do not take God's name in vain"
Scripture like "Honor your father and mother".

Ephesians 6:2 IS written for us --

Eph 6:2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

The ol' "I don't need no scripture goes it does not apply to me" doctrine - is not for Christians at all. It is simply made up -- and we all know it.

Even then the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 - knows it.

 

[BobRyan]

Not because he kept the Law of Moses

Paul writes -

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

John writes -
"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Jesus said this about those who merely "say" the right words while not "doing" as God commands.
Matthew 7 "Not everyone who SAYS 'Lord Lord' will ENTER the kingdom of heaven - but he who DOES the will of the Father"

Jesus said this - when explaining "In vain do they worship Me"
Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Luke 16
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[HankD]

Sheep need not be told to stay out of the hog wallow They stay in the green pastures and drink only pure water.

John 7:38 He who believes in me, as the scripture has said, Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

 

[Reformed]

Antinomianism is seen through one's attitude towards God's commands, not whether they are capable of keeping those commands.

As has already been said, Christ has fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us. That does not mean we are free to sin willfully. Our attitude towards John 14:15 reveals much about our profession. We will never keep God's commands perfectly this side of glory. To suggest otherwise is to mix works with grace - a false gospel. However, if we go to the opposite extreme we embrace antinomianism and cheapen Christ's sacrifice. I do not think anyone is advocating either extreme. Practically speaking we often find ourselves leaning in both directions at various times. "It is OK for me to drive 10 miles over the speed limit. Everyone else does it." That is minimizing and justifying sin, an antinomian position. "Playing cards leads to gambling and gambling is a sin. Therefore I will tell all my Christian friends not to play cards." That is binding the conscience of others. It goes beyond the warrant of scripture. It is legalism.

It is a good reminder for us to understand the true nature of God's grace and how it frees us from the Law. It is also a good reminder to live our lives in a manner pleasing to the Lord.

 

[HankD]

Antinomianism is seen through one's attitude towards God's commands, not whether they are capable of keeping those commands.

As has already been said, Christ has fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us. That does not mean we are free to sin willfully. Our attitude towards John 14:15 reveals much about our profession. We will never keep God's commands perfectly this side of glory. To suggest otherwise is to mix works with grace - a false gospel. However, if we go to the opposite extreme we embrace antinomianism and cheapen Christ's sacrifice. I do not think anyone is advocating either extreme. Practically speaking we often find ourselves leaning in both directions at various times. "It is OK for me to drive 10 miles over the speed limit. Everyone else does it." That is minimizing and justifying sin, an antinomian position. "Playing cards leads to gambling and gambling is a sin. Therefore I will tell all my Christian friends not to play cards." That is binding the conscience of others. It goes beyond the warrant of scripture. It is legalism.

It is a good reminder for us to understand the true nature of God's grace and how it frees us from the Law. It is also a good reminder to live our lives in a manner pleasing to the Lord.

And why wouldn't we want to do so if we are led of the Spirit?

Agreeing with you.