Practical Antinomians?

[loDebar]

Indeed lots of "sins" to be had.

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not".

Good thing the "Law of God is written on the heart" under the New Covenant.

No wonder Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And John writes "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Both-and not either-or



That is merely creative writing.

Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19... He is not in error.
Paul also says "fixing our eyes on Jesus" Hebrews 12:2... He is not in error.

Not either-or but rather both-and -- it is Christ in you the hope of glory - that writes the Law on your heart AND mind

no, it is the personal problem, Do I obey, not do things on the list, in order for God to be obligated to bless me ? Do I get so close to he line and not sin? Do I pay tithe , keep a tally of my actions to keep as a arrogant spiritual position over others?

sounds like a legalistic, Baptist pharisee

The Christians actions should be for love and the glory of our redeemer, not personal accounting

We are on death row, and Christians have accepted God's pardon, There is no need to try and get out by tallying our good behavior.

 

[BobRyan]

there is also sin of omission.

Indeed lots of "sins" to be had.

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not".

Good thing the "Law of God is written on the heart" under the New Covenant.

No wonder Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And John writes "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Both-and not either-or

The focus cannot be on a "law" but complete obedience to Jesus. The relationship should be so clear so that keeping a detail of a law is not considered.

That is merely creative writing.

Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19... He is not in error.
Paul also says "fixing our eyes on Jesus" Hebrews 12:2... He is not in error.

Not either-or but rather both-and -- it is Christ in you the hope of glory - that writes the Law on your heart AND mind

no, it is the personal problem, Do I obey, not do things on the list, in order for God to be obligated to bless me ? Do I get so close to he line and not sin? Do I pay tithe

Do you have a conscience? Does your conscience ever convict you of sin?

Typically the answer is "yes"'. Under conviction of sin do you repent and ask for forgiveness?

Where is the issue?

, keep a tally of my actions to keep as a arrogant spiritual position over others?

Is this your response every time someone reminds you that it is still a sin for saints to take God's name in vain?

Seriously???

sounds like a legalistic, Baptist pharisee

 

[loDebar]

Indeed lots of "sins" to be had.

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not".

Good thing the "Law of God is written on the heart" under the New Covenant.

No wonder Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And John writes "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Both-and not either-or



That is merely creative writing.

Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19... He is not in error.
Paul also says "fixing our eyes on Jesus" Hebrews 12:2... He is not in error.

Not either-or but rather both-and -- it is Christ in you the hope of glory - that writes the Law on your heart AND mind




Do you have a conscience? Does your conscience ever convict you of sin?

Typically the answer is "yes"'. Under conviction of sin do you repent and ask for forgiveness?

Where is the issue?




Is this your response every time someone reminds you that it is still a sin for saints to take God's name in vain?

Seriously???

sounds like a legalistic, Baptist pharisee

I was criticizing myself.

That is not a conscience but the Holy Spirit .

The issue is, if you do not do things you mention and yet still want to, you sin. Your relationship with Jesus is hurt.
It is a sin to takes God's name in vain as it is to have faith in the wrong thing. You faith cannot be in your actions, that is not salvation by the Grace of God but your own strength or ability to follow a check off list.

Do not believe I am saved because of what I do not do .
Do not believed you can help Jesus save you or that He needs help by your actions.
Do not believe I am not saved if I sin. I hurt the relationship but I am still saved.
What is the different in your attitude of the importance of your actions as compared to the OT Law.?

You are saved by your attitude which may show through your actions, The OT rely's on their actions to show their attitude toward God.

If I rely on my actions, I am not relying on the finished work ofJesus

see the difference?

If you miss Sabbath, what is the consequence?

 

[BobRyan]

I was criticizing myself.

That is not a conscience but the Holy Spirit .

Conscience informed and trained by the Holy Spirit is very good at "convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment" as we see in John 16.

The issue is, if you do not do things you mention and yet still want to, you sin.

The New Covenant includes a change of heart where "the LAW is written on heart and mind" and as Paul says in 2 Cor 5 "if anyone is in Christ - he is a new creation" the new birth creates it - and then it is at war with the old sinful nature.

It is a sin to takes God's name in vain as it is to have faith in the wrong thing.

You faith cannot be in your actions, that is not salvation by the Grace

Faith is in Christ - but Christ says that faith will have "fruit" and "by their fruits you shall know them" Matthew 7.

The "good tree produces good fruit" according to Christ and the New Birth is how the bad tree becomes a good one.

Do not believe I am not saved if I sin. I hurt the relationship but I am still saved.

True up to a point.

But at some point that Romans 11 and Matthew 18 teaching of Christ comes in. "I forgave you all that debt...turn him over to the torturers until he shall repay ALL that was owed... so shall My Father do to each one of you if you do not forgive" -- in that Matthew 18 story the only reason for someone to forgive others was because they had already been fully forgiven.

Jesus said "by their fruits" you shall know them

If you miss Sabbath, what is the consequence?

If you take God's name in vain what is the consequence?
If you beat your wife what is the consequence?

Hopefully it is that you repent and receive forgiveness and have true confession.

John said this "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;" 1 John 2:1

You are not lost each time you sin - but you confronted with the free-will choice of repentance having been convicted by the Holy Spirit ... each time. IF you choose to reject the Spirit of Christ - each time ... you are choosing the lake of fire for yourself in Christ's teaching on "Forgiveness Revoked" found in Matthew 18 and in Ezekiel 18.

As I told Steaver on another thread -- I do not claim that all Catholics are going to the lake of fire simply because they bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent.

James 4:17 and John 9:41 apply in all cases

 

[loDebar]

Conscience informed and trained by the Holy Spirit is very good at "convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment" as we see in John 16.



The New Covenant includes a change of heart where "the LAW is written on heart and mind" and as Paul says in 2 Cor 5 "if anyone is in Christ - he is a new creation" the new birth creates it - and then it is at war with the old sinful nature.





Faith is in Christ - but Christ says that faith will have "fruit" and "by their fruits you shall know them" Matthew 7.

The "good tree produces good fruit" according to Christ and the New Birth is how the bad tree becomes a good one.



True up to a point.

But at some point that Romans 11 and Matthew 18 teaching of Christ comes in. "I forgave you all that debt...turn him over to the torturers until he shall repay ALL that was owed... so shall My Father do to each one of you if you do not forgive" -- in that Matthew 18 story the only reason for someone to forgive others was because they had already been fully forgiven.

Jesus said "by their fruits" you shall know them



If you take God's name in vain what is the consequence?
If you beat your wife what is the consequence?

Hopefully it is that you repent and receive forgiveness and have true confession.

John said this "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;" 1 John 2:1

You are not lost each time you sin - but you confronted with the free-will choice of repentance having been convicted by the Holy Spirit ... each time. IF you choose to reject the Spirit of Christ - each time ... you are choosing the lake of fire for yourself in Christ's teaching on "Forgiveness Revoked" found in Matthew 18 and in Ezekiel 18.

As I told Steaver on another thread -- I do not claim that all Catholics are going to the lake of fire simply because they bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent.

James 4:17 and John 9:41 apply in all cases

The consequences toward salvation, not the consequences of the sin.

Forgiveness is not revoked in either Scripture nor is it discussed Ezekiel is written to the House of Israel and Matt 18, I assume, 8, 9, 10 which clearly only only states the physical ids not important as the spiritual. Do not let the physical keep you from heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

The consequences toward salvation, not the consequences of the sin.

Forgiveness is not revoked in either Scripture nor is it discussed Ezekiel is written to the House of Israel

The New Covenant is for the "House of Israel" -
Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.

and Matt 18, I assume, 8, 9, 10 which clearly only only states the physical ids not important as the spiritual.

Matthew 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

 

[thatbrian]

While I don't like the sounds of being obedient to a "moral law", I have no problem following the leading of the Holy Spirit.

When I wonder off His leading then I suppose I need some kind of "law" to lead me.

Poor substitute IMO.

The Spirit gives life. The Law condemns.

 

[thatbrian]

What happens if you do not keep the "moral law?

"If"??? Who is it who has kept the moral law?

 

[loDebar]

The New Covenant is for the "House of Israel" -
Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.



Matthew 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Are you claiming to be the House of Israel?
Matt. is talking about a spirit of forgiveness because we have been forgiven of even more

 

[loDebar]

"If"??? Who is it who has kept the moral law?

Does one loose salvation if the moral law is not kept?

 

[thatbrian]

Does one loose salvation if the moral law is not kept?

If that were the case who would be left standing, other than @BobRyan, of course.

 

[BobRyan]

Does one loose salvation if the moral law is not kept?

According to who?

Scripture?

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[BobRyan]

The New Covenant is for the "House of Israel" -

Are you claiming to be the House of Israel?
Matt. is talking about a spirit of forgiveness because we have been forgiven of even more

I claim to be a New Covenant Christian.. do you?

Jeremiah 31
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



============================================
Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.
Matthew 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Matt. is talking about a spirit of forgiveness because we have been forgiven of even more

Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due

 

[BobRyan]

The Spirit gives life. The Law condemns.

That is how the lost view the law - because it is intended to get them to see their need of the Gospel.

For the saved saints - under the New Covenant - that law is written on the heart and mind.

As even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 freely admits. Along with D.L. Moody

 

[loDebar]

The New Covenant is for the "House of Israel" -






I claim to be a New Covenant Christian.. do you?

Jeremiah 31
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



============================================
Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.
Matthew 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”



Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due

 

[loDebar]

so we loose our salvation?

 

[BobRyan]

I claim to be a New Covenant Christian.. do you?

Jeremiah 31
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



============================================
Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.
Matthew 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”



Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due[/QUOTE]

so we loose our salvation?

In your POV is there such a thing as "Salvation where you pay your own debt of sin" -- having been "forgiven all" he then had to "repay all".. OR is Christ simply mistaken in your POV?

OSAS does not survive Matthew 18 nor Romans 11 nor Ezekiel 18 (nor even Matthew 6)

(I notice you are not answering the question "do you claim to be a New Covenant Christian")

 

[BobRyan]

Does one loose salvation if the moral law is not kept?

Rebellion is what kind fruit?

1 John 1 and 2 argue for repentance in view of rebellion - are you proposing stubborn rebellion?

 

[loDebar]

You are trying to earn salvation

 

[BobRyan]

You are trying to earn salvation

Why accuse me of that - simply because I claim Christ is not in error in Matthew 18??

Nor is He in error in Matthew 7 "by their fruits you shall know them"

Nor is it error to ask the question "rebellion is what kind of fruit"?

Nor is it error to make this comment ... 1 John 1 and 2 argue for repentance in view of rebellion - are you proposing stubborn rebellion?

Nor is it error to expect an answer to the question.

I think we all knew that.