Practical Antinomians?

[loDebar]

In fact you are bodily resurrected and seated with Christ in heaven at the right hand of the Father. (right up until you experience forgiveness revoked)

Eph 2
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Therefore "fix your hope completely" on the second coming 2 Peter 1:13 when that becomes reality.

12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

Phil 3
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.


1 Cor 9
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others - I myself should be disqualified from it.

Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress e]">[e]for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

strike #2

If i , never had access to the scripture , but on my death bed , repent and accept Jesus as my Savior, will I inherit eternal life?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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[One Baptism]

strike #2

If i , never had access to the scripture , but on my death bed , repent and accept Jesus as my Savior, will I inherit eternal life?

You, then, as a professing believer, once deceased, having fallen asleep, would still go through the judgment process that is taking place now, and be judged according to the light you had received in life [you are not pysically present for this judgment, but by proxy - that is to say, by the deeds, words, thoughts that were faithfully recorded in the Heavenly records books by the angel/s that were by you throughout life:

Hebrews 9:27 KJB - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Ecclesiastes 3:17 KJB - I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Daniel 7:9 KJB - I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Daniel 7:10 KJB - A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Revelation 14:6 KJB - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Matthew 18:23 KJB - Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.​

 

[loDebar]

so believing , confession, is of little value to you, everything depends on you actions. Your faith is in yourself.

1Jo 1:8¶
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[One Baptism]

so believing , confession, is of little value to you, everything depends on you actions. Your faith is in yourself....

All action is derived from what is believed, whether true or false, kinda like your response - having started with a faulty assumed apriori, you came to faulty [and hasty I might add] conclusion and then you posted it.

Wherein, anything that was said/written, did I say/write, that "believing, confession is of little value" and that "everything depends on ... actions" or that my "faith is in [myself]" [God forbid!]?

 

[loDebar]

you make your faith in your actions,

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[One Baptism]

you make your faith in your actions,

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation, indeed, even justification, is by God's grace through faith, unearned.

Ephesians 2:8 KJB - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 KJB - Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 KJB - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.​

Faith unto good works, not for salvation, but the good works are in salvation, after belief, revealing its actual occurence/transaction. Look at the order of progression in the thought, from its origin to its finality.

A pardoned criminal, with record cleared, having thus been paid in full, is set at liberty once more, not to commit that which was done in the past, which made them criminal, but now unto a new citizen, with differing [good, not criminal] works. A criminal still on death row, who has not received pardon, it would not matter what works were done, for the works cannot pay the death penalty, even if done into infinity, the penalty was death, not works.

 

[loDebar]

wow, working hard to be wrong

good works are because of salvation, not toward salvation

your own illustration shows the futility of your point . The pardon is all that is required for liberty



Rom 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5¶
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Iconoclast]

At times though, both jesus and paul were accused by some of teaching freedom to sin, but really both of them were teaching to us what it meant to not being under the law now, but under grace!

That is antinomian thought....Christians are not lawless.

 

[One Baptism]

wow, working hard to be wrong

good works are because of salvation, not toward salvation

your own illustration shows the futility of your point . The pardon is all that is required for liberty



Rom 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5¶
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I think you have a reading issue. "in" is not "towards".

 

[loDebar]

I think you have a reading issue. "in" is not "towards".

Are you saying good works "in " salvation? not toward salvation, I have tried to get you to admit salvation is not dependent on works

If you do not add works to salvation in order to keep salvation, say so.

 

[One Baptism]

Are you saying good works "in " salvation? not toward salvation, I have tried to get you to admit salvation is not dependent on works

If you do not add works to salvation in order to keep salvation, say so.

"in" salvation. I have said this on numerous (I lost count) occasions. Not "toward" salvation. In fact, before salvation, there is no "good works", it is as filthy rags, it is nothing but debt, never the relieving of debt, and afterward it is His good works, being worked out in us.

That which parallels Ephesians 2:8-10 KJB, is 2 Timothy 3:14-17 KJB:

2 Timothy 3:14 KJB - But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

2 Timothy 3:15 KJB - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:16 KJB - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 KJB - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.​

Salvation, is that which is being bought and brought [see Leviticus 25 KJB, in type] back into the perfect will of God [His Ten Commandments]. As James says, the [good, living] works are not the root, but the fruit born of the root of real faith:

Luke 8:15 KJB - But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.​

Notice:

James 2:14 KJB - What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:15 KJB - If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16 KJB - And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

James 2:17 KJB - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:18 KJB - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:19 KJB - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:20 KJB - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:21 KJB - Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

James 2:22 KJB - Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

James 2:23 KJB - And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

James 2:24 KJB - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:25 KJB - Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

James 2:26 KJB - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

How did Abraham believe God? Mere mental ascent? No, it was through actual demonstration of the living faith, in the good work by offering Isaac in reality, requested by the commandment of God, thus was obedience and true worship in spirit and in truth. Or one might say in heart and deed.

Hebrews 6:1 KJB, makes the distinction from "dead works", and thus its contrast in Christ, of living works.

Christ Jesus has given us something to "keep" through living faith [not "dead", again not for, not towards, but] "in" salvation:

Revelation 12:17 KJB And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:3 KJB - And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments. [see Exodus 20:6 KJB]

John 14:23 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

etc., etc.​

A man which does not, through faith, keep the commandments of God [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], did they really have saving faith? No. They had doubt:

Romans 14:23 KJB - "... or whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

1 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 6:23 KJB - "For the wages of sin is death; ..."
​

Notice, the "faith of Jesus":

Revelation 14:12 KJB - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

That text does not say "faith in Jesus", but rather the more powerful "faith of Jesus", which allowed Him to walk in the fallen sinful flesh of mankind, as we have now, and not sin. He gave us that example, for He is both substitute and example.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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