Praise Bands

[Reformed]

The purpose of this thread is not to create controversy, it's to ask a genuine question and open the topic up for discussion.

I attended a Baptist church today in Central Florida. The preaching was very good. There was a good mix of adults, senior adults, teens, and children. The church did some things I'm not used to (like having congregants walk to the front of the church to take the elements of the Lord's Supper), but they were not a big deal for me. The real issue for me was the music; especially the congregational signing. Like many churches today, this one had a modern praise band. The "main" musician was the lead singer an acoustic guitarist. Most of the songs they played were not conducive to congregational signing. The band is very good, it was as though it was a concert and not a worship service. The lead singer is talented. He has a powerful voice and wide vocal range. OK. So, that's the style of music this church plays. I can handle that. The part that really concerned me was the lack of congregational signing, especially by the adults that were 50 and older. I was looking around and could see that most of these adults were out of their element. I always enjoy congregational signing and did my best to join in, but it's hard to sing when the lead singer of the praise band is professional grade and drowns out the congregation. The best way to describe it is that the band was performing in front of the congregation, and not leading in worship. IMHO there's something seriously wrong when a good portion of the congregation doesn't sing, and not because they don't want to.

I don't want to be misunderstood. While the type of worship music I naturally gravitate towards is more traditional, I try to be accepting of the fact that music is not an issue I want to fall on my sword over, unless it causes a problem. Today I saw it causing a problem. Is it right to exclude an entire generation from the worship service (in this case older adults)? How can churches that are contemporary in their music make their music acceptable for congregational signing? I think this is a real issue. Tim Challies recently wrote an interesting blog article on this topic. I didn't sink in fully until this morning's worship service. The article is titled Why I Didn’t Sing When I Visited Your Church - Tim Challies

OK. Enough from me on this topic. Time for you to speak.

 

[rlvaughn]

Among other things, I think there may be two that are the main inhibitors of congregational singing: the songs are not designed (written) with the congregation in mind in the first place, and the songs are not played/sung with the congregation in mind in the second place.

 

[InTheLight]

Did they project the words of the songs onto a video screen?

Sent from my Moto Droid Turbo.

 

[rlvaughn]

Reformed, I had some further thoughts about Congregational Singing that I posted in the Music Ministry forum (click preceding link). I thought those thoughts kind of went a different direction from your opening post here, so put it there rather than in your thread.

 

[Reformed]

R.L., I read your post in the thread you created and find myself in basic agreement.

I know that modern Christian music, by-and-large, appeals to a younger audience. It's that a mid-50 year old geezer like me can't appreciate such music, it's just that I'm not part of that generation. One of the arguments that some of our Presbyterian brethren (and even some Baptists) is that the Psalter is the hymnal of the Church. It transcends generations, and its lyrics are eternal. I won't argue with that, although I'm not of the opinion that the Church is limited to just the psalms. However, metric psalms certainly solve the problem of conduciveness. Hymns are written with the congregation in mind. Many modern praise choruses, while short on content, are made for congregation singing. You know, the 7-11 choruses (7 words repeated 11 times).

All of this points to a larger problem: that we are ignoring mature saints and the valuable contribution they make to the Church.

 

[annsni]

My daughter (24 years old now) wrote a guideline for songs to use in worship. There are some great songs that are just not good congregational songs because they are hard to sing or they just don't convey what we want to convey in worship. Let me see if I can find it.

I can't find it right now and she's sleeping. I know a few of the points were:

* A key the congregation can sing in
* The song must be singable for the majority of the congregation
* The song needs to be focused on God and not on us
* Needs to be theologically sound

There are some people who don't sing no matter what - even if we sung an old standard out of a hymnal. They just don't like to sing so I wouldn't say that if someone is not singing we are doing something wrong but it is good to speak to those who don't sing to see why they aren't. But I do agree with much of what Tim Challies wrote in his blog post and we need to be cautious that we are leading worship with excellence but it is not a concert. It isn't hard to do but it must be done with some thinking and planning and purpose.

 

[Reformed]

There are some people who don't sing no matter what - even if we sung an old standard out of a hymnal. They just don't like to sing so I wouldn't say that if someone is not singing we are doing something wrong but it is good to speak to those who don't sing to see why they aren't.

Ann, I agree with this. In my case, I scanned the congregation and the lack of singing was widespread among those in the 50+ agree group. So, it's more of a generational issue.

 

[HankD]

My generation has to move over and give way to the next.

However a hymn or two of my generation's songs are usually included in the Lord's Day repertoire at our local church.

There are some of the modern hymns that are very good IMO and I am able to worship the LORD while singing.

My granddaughter leads the singing using amplification, she is loud, articulate and carries a tune/melody very well making the words and melody easy to follow while reading the words on the overhead screen.

A good song leader is very helpful.

The lights are dimmed during the song service, a very good effect with distractions minimized.


HankD

 

[rlvaughn]

One of the arguments that some of our Presbyterian brethren (and even some Baptists) is that the Psalter is the hymnal of the Church. It transcends generations, and its lyrics are eternal. I won't argue with that, although I'm not of the opinion that the Church is limited to just the psalms. However, metric psalms certainly solve the problem of conduciveness.

Exclusive Psalmody is an interesting topic, though I think it is one that runs off the rails. On the other hand many churches run off the rails by ignoring the Psalms altogether. If we adopt exclusive psalmody we can take the New Testament as the basis for our scripture readings, the texts for our sermons and the rule for our faith and practice – buy we can't sing it in our assemblies! Under the Exclusive Psalmody doctrine the very words spoken by Jesus Christ Himself are rejected as inappropriate singing subject matter for the New Testament churches. Something isn't right about that! I wrote on Why the New Covenant revelation should be included in hymning the Lamb, which I'll just link and not reproduce here.

 

[rlvaughn]

Reformed, in going back over your posts I see that a main thing you are concerned about is "excluding an entire generation from the worship service". I think this is a legitimate concern, regardless of which generation it excludes. One generation shouldn't have to move over for another generation. As a church all the generations of the congregation should move together. One thing that American churches seem to be hung up on is style over substance. But the praise band issue you're talking about goes beyond that, in that many of the songs they are singing truly are performances with little interest in or attention given to whether or not the congregation sings. If it is important that the congregation sing, then this is a bad approach.

As annsi notes, there are some people who just aren't going to sing. Like the poor, that has been with us always, and we'll never fix it completely. I think there are also cultural factors that have led us as Americans generally away from singing and toward listening. But we can "fix" the songs in the sense of putting forth songs that can be sung by more of the congregation rather than fewer of the congregation. Many of these songs "performed" in churches are not written with a congregation in mind. Beyond that, the leader of the praise band may be setting it in the key that suits him or her with little or no consideration of whether anyone else can sing it. These factors are just wrong, and wrong for congregational singing.

I don't frequent churches that sing "off the wall" but I have attended them and have sung "off the wall". I have no objection to the 7-11 choruses per se, and have found some I like. Others are just Pablum (but that can be true of some hymns also). The issue of performance and praise bands and generations transcends whether we are talking about hymns or choruses. We must first address the issue of congregational praise versus featured performance, in my opinion.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I'm in a praise band. Our band consists of piano, keyboard, lead guitar, bass guitar, and drums.

We play hymn arrangements that our music director buys or writes and we play some contemporary songs, too. We have a blended service.

I've played the piano for my church from the days of the Broadman hymnal to today - for me, that's been about 40 years. Yes, I started playing for solo/choir specials at age 15 and congregational singing at age 17. I've seen all kinds of music come and go. And I've seen people take offense at music for a variety of reasons for that length of time also.

Should the congregation be able to sing "congregationally"? Yes. I believe that.

Are there some hymns in the hymnbook that do not lend themselves to that ease of congregational singing? Yes, "How Great Thou Art" comes to mind. I've played for a host of song leaders both permanent, revival, and temporary - no two song leader sings that the same. And even when our praise band leads that song in church - we have to practice it carefully to make sure everyone is feeling the tempo and timing exactly the same.

Are there some newer songs that tend to be more like solo songs? Yes, but that doesn't mean that they all do or that some of the new songs can't be learned.

When our teenagers sing in the Sunday night choir and I am playing the piano with the praise band, I can hear them singing those traditional hymns with all their might. And, as my choir director noted recently to me, the older crowd also sings the newer songs.

We have a church that sings - young, old, hymns, newer songs. We sing.

 

[2Dennings]

I have been in my church 24 years and watched us transition from hymns with a full choir, to a mixture of hymns and choruses, to full contemporary with a full blown band and that concert feel. I was very resistant to it at first but now I enjoy it. I sit in the front row and the singing from the church is amazing, young and old. If you do some study on this topic you will see that the debate on music in the church goes back to the very beginning. Congregational hymns with piano, organ, and choir do not go back to the early church. It might be the way we always did it, but it's not they way it was always done. The music and style of singing has transitioned through the years and there was always someone saying "That's not the way we did it!". I quit complaining and now I enjoy it and sing louder than ever (that's why I sit in the front row, nobody can hear me).

 

[Reformed]

I think RL gets my point. It's not about the songs per se. I don't want to repeat my argument.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[InTheLight]

I think RL gets my point. It's not about the songs per se. I don't want to repeat my argument.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Did they project the words of the songs onto a video screen?

 

[Darrell C]

The purpose of this thread is not to create controversy, it's to ask a genuine question and open the topic up for discussion.

I attended a Baptist church today in Central Florida. The preaching was very good. There was a good mix of adults, senior adults, teens, and children. The church did some things I'm not used to (like having congregants walk to the front of the church to take the elements of the Lord's Supper), but they were not a big deal for me. The real issue for me was the music; especially the congregational signing. Like many churches today, this one had a modern praise band. The "main" musician was the lead singer an acoustic guitarist. Most of the songs they played were not conducive to congregational signing. The band is very good, it was as though it was a concert and not a worship service. The lead singer is talented. He has a powerful voice and wide vocal range. OK. So, that's the style of music this church plays. I can handle that. The part that really concerned me was the lack of congregational signing, especially by the adults that were 50 and older. I was looking around and could see that most of these adults were out of their element. I always enjoy congregational signing and did my best to join in, but it's hard to sing when the lead singer of the praise band is professional grade and drowns out the congregation. The best way to describe it is that the band was performing in front of the congregation, and not leading in worship. IMHO there's something seriously wrong when a good portion of the congregation doesn't sing, and not because they don't want to.

I don't want to be misunderstood. While the type of worship music I naturally gravitate towards is more traditional, I try to be accepting of the fact that music is not an issue I want to fall on my sword over, unless it causes a problem. Today I saw it causing a problem. Is it right to exclude an entire generation from the worship service (in this case older adults)? How can churches that are contemporary in their music make their music acceptable for congregational signing? I think this is a real issue. Tim Challies recently wrote an interesting blog article on this topic. I didn't sink in fully until this morning's worship service. The article is titled Why I Didn’t Sing When I Visited Your Church - Tim Challies

OK. Enough from me on this topic. Time for you to speak.

You're not alone. I too prefer congregational singing and I honestly don't think much of the trend towards the music many fellowships are gravitating to. We visited a fellowship closer to home a few weeks ago and to be honest, it kind of felt like we had gone to a night club.

And I hate to say it, but it seems more like a showcase for the musicians rather than something the entire Church is part of. Sure, most of them post the lyrics, but it isn't the same. And the volume is a little too much usually.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

My generation has to move over and give way to the next.

Sez who?




God bless.

 

[HankD]

Sez who?




God bless.

Me.

HankD