Prayer in Elizabethan English

Forgive me if I'm not supposed to post here, but I have had something on my mind ever since this wonderful topic came up.

Not only do I love the EE way of prayer, but I love seeing the old way of writing certain words. Many folks will spell Saviour with a "u". I've noticed that in a lot of BBmembers' writings. I even find myself spelling other words (honour,etc) & will correct it...but I"ll never change the way I spell Saviour. Thank y'all.

 

It doesn't seem strange to me, but I am very used to the King James. I guess most of the time I pray in everyday language, though.

 

Since this thread started, I started to think about how I actually prayed....I took note this morning.....guess wot? It came out with a cor blimey English accent.....Now, which came first, the Cockney or King James?

Smile! It really doesn't hurt

Jim

 

God would have to do a double take if I prayed in Elizabethan English.

 

To the author of this thread, I would say that Elizabethan English is the prettiest form of English to me and is English as it was meant to be spoken and written. The pressures of the last four hundred years have forced changes and language changes with time, as you know, but the Elizabethan English conveys a closeness to God that other translations lack. The older generation had many men who could use beautiful English and its use was commonplace. I am sixty years old, and I prefer the King James Version just for its beauty. Let me not forget the hymns that are written in Elizabethan English. I cannot imagine American English in an old standard like "Great Is Thy Faithfulness."

 

Elizabethan English conveys a closeness to God

Sheer nonsense. Language-- any dialect of any time-- is verbal communication. Nothing more or less.

 

Granny, the extra "u" just comes from using proper English like we use here in Canada! Now if we could just get you folk south of the 49th to change those "z"s to "s"s and call it a "zed" and not a "zee"...

 

The use of the familiar in Elizabethan English is absent from modern English. By the rules of grammar, I think that modern English is more formal. So I stand by my point that it makes one feel closer to God. When I read something like Psalm 23 in modern English, I tend to close that translation and go back to the beautiful King James Bible. Can anyone imagine in modern English a hymn like "How Great Thou Art"?

 

Thou hast asked me to Speakth on pray. I hast prayeth as I so I speakth.
This statute I hast directed myself to keep from my youth tell now.
I am not ashamed, for I have in oftentimes hast done so hitherto.

 

Yes, I have a good sense of humor. But putting the third person ending of a verb on a noun is not all that funny. Perhaps you should rethink your choice of occupations, or, in other words, "Don't quit your day job!"

 

Granny, I'm with you on this one -

I hear the beauty in the EE during prayers or liturgical readings so rarely, but it causes me to focus more on what is actually being said than to let it wash over me. Not that I'm inattentive before, but my mind must work more actively. Boy, I hope that makes sense.

And likewise with spelling - I've put the "U" into saviour in my writing for a few years now, along with some other words; I even use "grey" instead of "gray". Now, I might go back to "color" (boy that was actually difficult not to put that "u" in there), but I treasure writing Saviour.

BTW, the first Bible I read through was a Living Bible, but I was so young then. I know we had some KJV Bibles around, but I was exposed to other versions also. Which means, though I do like the poetic flow of King Jimmy, it was not more than occasional exposure. Perhaps, this familiarity with one version over time, or from childhood, might do more to explain not only usage among certain groups but also why some do cling to one version and reject others, whatever that version might be. That's IMhO anyway.

God's peace to you all, in abundant grace, more than enough to exceed your every need -

David
(have I actually been here long enough to start including my name? ) Be afraid!

 

The ladies and gentlemen who put the "u" in Saviour have expressed my thinking on the subject. It offends the eye not to see that "u" in the printed word.

Maybe I do not pray and speak in Elizabethan English exactly, but I do like standard English and Elizabethan English is still the most beautiful to my ear and to my mind.

Looking at the hymnal, I am surprised at how many songs use Elizabethan English. I may not speak it and may seldom pray it, but I sing Elizabethan English all the time.

God's Richest Blessings To Thee And Thine!

 

Well me being contry-fied and all {from south carolina} I don't even speak in perfect english. I can phrase sentinces correctly, but I tend to speak words like "ya'll", and "we a goin", and I tend to pronouce words like iron and hour like "eye-ern" and "eye-rs" {I've actualy had people from up north ask me to speak english!
so of course, I do not pray in old english, although I think it's beautiful.
Personaly, I don't think it matters how we pray, because God knows our heart. He'd proably rather hear a person with little education stuttering with words but praying in sincerity than someone who prayed in Elizabethan English just to be praying that way.
If I remember correctly, didn't Jesus speak of the Pharasee that prayed something to the effect of:"I'm thankfull I'm not such a sinner as these." and the publican, who didn't even fill worthy enough to look towards Heaven prayed:"Forgive this sinner."?
Now if ya pray in old english, and you mean what you are saying in all sincerity, than by all means, pray that way, but I don't think there is anything wrong with praying like you would normaly talk either.
I personaly pray as I speak. Others may not understand my Southern accent, but God knows every part of me, and understands everything I say, even if I don't have the most eloquent way of saying it at the time.
{BTW, someone once told me that SOuthern slang was like a completely diffrent language! }
Abby

 

Do we agree that one sins by thought, word, and deed? And do we agree that theological error is sin?

Certainly, everyone would agree that some words would not be proper in the worship of The Bread Of Life Our Lord And Saviour Jesus Christ.

But accents, such as the Hoosier dialect of James Whitcomb Riley who wrote about Orphan Annie coming to our house to stay, would not be offensive if they were still around much to be heard. And many Southerners are here in the Hoosier Circle City and their accents are soft and pleasing to the ear. But words are a tool, and Elizabethan English is modern enough to be understood by most and beautiful enough that, if a person can use it, it would seem that adding beauty to the use of words would not displease a Father God.

 

For me, the question is "Is EE necessary?" Do we have to try to make our words more flowery, or must be be heartfelt and honest before holy God? I believe the latter. There's enough pretense to go around. God is looking for worship in spirit and in truth (Jn 4:24)

 

This is a nutty dilemma. The excuses read here that older pronouns and inflections sound "beautiful" or "formal," and this silliness about spelling-- that somehow the Savior is more of a Saviour by adding an unneeded letter-- they come together to demonstrate prayer and scripture reading as a kind of show.. Do you really think-- like Joseph Smith-- that's how God talks? and if He wanted to win a spelling bee he would have to do in England?

 

For some odd reason my earlier post seems to have been deleted. Must have been an accident. Here it is again.

Why, just because I occasionally use an archaic formal pronoun in my prayers should I be charaterized as dishonest and pretentious? Can't my prayers be "heartfelt and honest" with an occasional "Thee" and "Thou" in them?

Is this another case of Phariseeism run amok?

[ August 28, 2002, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: DocCas ]

 

The liberals seem to think that the use of something beautiful is insincere, or at least that is how I am understanding what they are saying.

Americans set about developing their own form of the English language after the Revolution against England. In the process, they destroyed some fine things. If a man has the ability to use language in a beautiful manner, why is this wrong? If one were having a brick wall built, one might see the fine craftsmanship of a master bricklayer as superior to the work of a general laborer who really did not know much about laying bricks. True, both persons might build a functional wall, but the well-built wall would be more pleasing to the owner (assuming the cost is the same, for example). But it is tricky to argue by analogy, because someone usually finds some flaw and makes that flaw the debate.

Elizabethan English is modern English, and its use is proper in my opinion. Is not the songbook in the church full of songs using Elizabethan English? Do we have to rewrite the songs? What is wrong with having a familiar form of address?

God Bless Thee!

 

No one said EE was pretentious in and of itself, and no one said EE could not be heartfelt. Implying such seems to be the real Phariseeism Again, for those who aren't paying attention, the key is "Is EE necessary?"

[ August 28, 2002, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: TomVols ]