Praying in Tongues

[Gershom]

This subject is being discussed in the Baptist Only area, and I thought I would offer other denominations an opportunity to give their views/interpretation of the matter.

Some say the Bible doesn't teach a "prayer language." What say ye in light of the context of 1 Cor 14? What about the 28th verse? What does it mean? What is it instructing?

 

[BD17]

26What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

Here is the entire verse in context, it says that if you speak in tongues but there is no one to interpret then stay silent and speak it to himself. It is not discussing some special "prayer language" that is spoken in silent.

All this is mute any way because the gift of tongues has ceased.

 

[webdog]

It was pointed out over there that the verses in 1 Corinthians have nothing to do with a private prayer language.

All this is mute any way because the gift of tongues has ceased.

Does God know this?

 

[Gershom]

Here is the entire verse in context, it says that if you speak in tongues but there is no one to interpret then stay silent and speak it to himself. It is not discussing some special "prayer language" that is spoken in silent.

So it seems we're hung up on the expression "private prayer language." Call it what you will. I note that in your answer, you ignored that the verse says not only to speak to yourself, but also to God. If you are speaking to God, what are you doing?

 

[BD17]

I speak to God everyday does that mean it is a special prayer language? No that verse means stay quite and speak to God and yourself. It would be the same as me going to China where no one speaks English, I should stay silent and pray to myself and God. This is not proof for a special language for prayer.

I did not ignore anything it does not change the answer in the least.

 

[JFox1]

I pray a lot, but I have never spoken in tongues or prayed in tongues. I just don't have that particular spiritual gift.

 

[Link]

I just posted about this very topic on a Pentecostal forum.

Verse 28 shows us that the same type of tongues spoken in the congregation can be used in prayer outside of the church, without interpretation. There is no 'private prayer language in the chapter.' However, the gift of tongues can be used as a 'private prayer language.' The issue here is that these things are one gift, not two.

Verses 14 and 15 show that tongues can be used in prayer as well. Paul goes on in the next verses to show that it does not benefit the congregation to speak in tongues without interpretation, even though if you bless with the S/spirit you give thanks well. Since the other people are not edified, we should not give thanks with the Spirit without interpretation.

 

[drfuss]

I Cor. 14:18,19 - "I thank God I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue."

Since Paul didn't speak in tongues very much in church, where do you think he spoke in tongues "more than you all"? Obviously in his private prayers, i.e. Private Prayer Language.

Obviously, Paul had a private prayer language.

 

[music4Him]

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

1Cor. 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Makes since to me~ :flower:

 

[webdog]

I think some of you are reading way too much into these verses. The inverse and converse of a text cannot be assumed.

We are given a model of EXACTLY how to pray. The disciples asked: How do we pray? Jesus replied: Like this...Our Father...

Tongues is the uttering of a personal unknown language to edify God by sharing the Gospel by speaking in another person's language, hence the need for an interpreter. A private prayer language based on this fact makes no sense. The Holy Spirit interceding FOR us on our behalf "in groans" cannot be construed as US praying through the Holy Spirit "in groans".

 

[tamborine lady]

:type:

Like Music pointed out:

1 Cor-15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
*****************************************

For those of you who don't believe in a prayer language, please tell me
what the scripture above mean when it says I will pray with the spirit?

It can't mean praying in ones normal tongue, because it says next, and I will pray with the understanding also!! So something different must be going on thats different when he is "praying with the Spirit".

Selah,

Tam

 

[tamborine lady]

:type:

BUMP!!

 

[Rooselk]

In reading the church Fathers - those that lived in the era immediately following the Apostles - there is no mention of speaking in tongues except those associated with heretical or aborant Christian groups like the Montanists. Perhaps the reason for this is that the need for such sign gifts had ceased.

As for praying in the Spirit, am I to believe that all the prayers of those non-tongues speaking saints throughout the centuries, and especially those that God used in such incredible ways, were somehow lacking the Spirit of God?

Poor souls. It's a wonder that God could use them at all seeing as they lacked their own prayer language in which to communicate with God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Cor-15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:


HP: To me, this verse is not trying to support the idea that praying in the spirit is praying in tongues at all, but rather Paul is saying that when he prays in the spirit, it is not without the understanding also. He is teaching that when we are praying in the spirit, our understanding should be fruitful, something that some evidently were not experiencing in their ‘praying in the spirit.’

 

[Link]

In reading the church Fathers - those that lived in the era immediately following the Apostles - there is no mention of speaking in tongues except those associated with heretical or aborant Christian groups like the Montanists. Perhaps the reason for this is that the need for such sign gifts had ceased.

Ireneaus is considered a historical pillar of orthodoxy. He was one of the first to write a book against the heresies of his day. Around 200 AD, he wrote of speaking in tongues, miracles, etc. being done by the brethren of his day. Ireneaus knew Polycarp who knew the apostle John. Ireneaus was a bishop in what is now France, and did missions work there.

As for praying in the Spirit, am I to believe that all the prayers of those non-tongues speaking saints throughout the centuries, and especially those that God used in such incredible ways, were somehow lacking the Spirit of God?

The Bible tells us that God gives different gifts. A foot should not say because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body.

 

[Link]

Cor-15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:


HP: To me, this verse is not trying to support the idea that praying in the spirit is praying in tongues at all, but rather Paul is saying that when he prays in the spirit, it is not without the understanding also. He is teaching that when we are praying in the spirit, our understanding should be fruitful, something that some evidently were not experiencing in their ‘praying in the spirit.’

Let us look at the verses in context. Notice that the context is about interpreting tongues.

If Paul prayed in tongues, and then interpreted, he would pray with the spirit, and then with the unberstanding.

Notice that the verses you are referring is sandwiched between verses about speaking in tongues. The person who blesses with the spirit builds himself up (v. 2) and gives thanks well. But if it is not interpreted, no one else is edified.

I Corinthians 14:13-17 says,
13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand[e] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
(NIV)

 

[Link]

Cor-15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:


HP: To me, this verse is not trying to support the idea that praying in the spirit is praying in tongues at all, but rather Paul is saying that when he prays in the spirit, it is not without the understanding also. He is teaching that when we are praying in the spirit, our understanding should be fruitful, something that some evidently were not experiencing in their ‘praying in the spirit.’

I Corinthians 13-17
13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand[e] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

HP: 1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

IMHO Paul is trying in a diplomatic way to curb the excess abuse of unknown languages, trying to get his audience to see the need to place this gift in its proper perspective, and to start seeking the gifts edifying to the Church and not just the individual. The word 'spirit' in verse two, “howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries,” and the word 'spirit' in verses 14-16 I believe carry different connotations to a degree. Although as in verse 2 the ‘spirit’ is used in conjunction with speaking in an unknown language, in verse 15-16 Paul is showing that one can be ‘in the spirit’ in prayer and singing combined with the mind and understanding. The ‘spirit’ spoken of in verse two is something apart from the understanding being involved. It is all mysteries.

Paul is trying to teach these individuals that you do not have to be ‘out of' or 'apart from' the understanding to be ‘in the spirit,’ whether in prayer, singing, or speaking in the assembly.

When Paul tells them that he would rather speak five words in a known language than ten thousand in an unknown tongue, he is trying to curb one habit that within the assembly edifies at best only ‘some of the time,’ for a habit that if practiced can and will edify all of the time, and still be just as much ‘in the spirit.’

You do not have to be 'out of the understanding' to be fully 'in the spirit.' The message is clear. In the assembly the best method to use and the preferred method is to speak, pray, and sing ‘with understanding’ and ‘in the spirit’ in a ‘known language’ understood by all. That is how I read it at least.