Praying in vain

[plain_n_simple]

I seek to never attempt anything from satan.

Amen sista!

 

[Tom Butler]

God always answers our prayers.
Sometimes the answer is Yes
Sometimes it's No
Sometimes it's Not Now.

 

[OldRegular]

In this I am speaking of believers, not the lost.
I have been pondering some issues about prayers. Week after week I set in church and hear prayer requests that have raised a question. The question is does God answer prayers that are crop failure type prayers? First let me clarify some of what those are. They would be prayers asking for healing or relief from the possible results of our own actions. In other words we willfully disobey a command or precept and are now facing the results, and we want God to supernaturally clean up our mess.

In looking through the bible I cannot find a single time where God answered a prayer to overcome the results of a persons disobedience. I am reminded of the warning in Proverbs 1:20-30 and of David's son (baby) who was taken by the Lord.

Let me give some examples of what I am talking about. First let me say when I use the term healing I mean supernatural instant healing with no outside medial treatment. A person smokes for years and gets some form of cancer and then asks for prayer. I have NEVER seen a healing for such. Yes they can go to the Doctor and get treatment but the result is no different than a lost person who has had no prayer. Some recover and some die.

Or someone who played around with sex. Can they ask God for crop failure and have any expectation of it happening? I don't think so.

There are many others but I think you get the drift of this. So is there any scripture that suggests God will answer prayers as asked if we disobey His commands or precepts? One ast thing. I am not speaking about times like Jonah or the Hebrews when they were under judgement or a call. Are we many times praying in vain?

I found the following discussion about prayer when I was teaching Ephesians many years ago in which some time was spent discussing prayer. The discuss included the following:

Edmund Clowney in the New Dictionary of Theology [page 526] writes on prayer as follows:

The Lord promises to hear and answer our prayers as we pray according to his will [1 John 5:14,15]. To pray according to God’s will means to make God’s word the guide for our prayers. Prayer seeks God’s will in faith, believing in his power to answer in His created universe [Matthew 21:21, 22]. In adoration we praise God for what he does and who he is. God’s holiness demands confession of sin; his grace invites supplication for pardon. In the communion of prayer we express our love for God and offer to him the tribute of our lives. By prayer the church resists the assaults of Satan [Matthew 26:41; Ephesians 6:13-20]; receives fresh gifts of grace [Acts 4:31]; seeks deliverance, healing and restoration for the saints [Ephesians 6:r8;James 5:15; 1 John 5.16]; supports the witness of the gospel [Colossains 4:3, 4]; seeks the return of the Lord [Revelation 22:20]; and, above all, worships him of whom, through whom, and unto whom are all things.

Clowney makes some very significant points about prayer.

Then the question, if God is sovereign why pray at all? God knows before we ask what our request will be and He knows how he will respond. Perhaps an answer to this question can be found in the life of the Apostle Paul.

2 Corinthians 12:8,9, NKJV
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.[/i]

Here we see a prayer, offered in faith, for a temporal need that was not granted. Commenting on this passage W. Bingham Hunter [The God Who Hears] writes:

Paul’s experience highlights the simple but profound truth that prayer is not the means by which we get what we want, rather it is a means that God uses to give us what he wants.

I am not familiar with the author or the book but I believe he gives one of the best explanations of prayer I have heard/read.​

 

[Zaac]

Yes but some prayer (requests) are sinful and satan hates to have sin pointed out.

But if you're listening and the prayer is sincere, does not God give an answer for the sinful prayers too, if even just to tell you in the Spirit that the prayer was sinful ?

 

[OldRegular]

Then the question, if God is sovereign why pray at all? God knows before we ask what our request will be and He knows how he will respond. Perhaps an answer to this question can be found in the life of the Apostle Paul.

2 Corinthians 12:8,9, NKJV
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.[/i]

Here we see a prayer, offered in faith, for a temporal need that was not granted. Commenting on this passage W. Bingham Hunter [The God Who Hears] writes:

Paul’s experience highlights the simple but profound truth that prayer is not the means by which we get what we want, rather it is a means that God uses to give us what he wants.

I am not familiar with the author or the book but I believe he gives one of the best explanations of prayer I have heard/read.

I believe the preyers of Jesus Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane are an example of the above:

Matthew 26:37-42
37. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
38. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39. And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
40. And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
41. Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
42. He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

 

[Judith]

But if you're listening and the prayer is sincere, does not God give an answer for the sinful prayers too, if even just to tell you in the Spirit that the prayer was sinful ?

We need to Get it right ahead of time, not pray sinfully and hope for correction.

 

[Judith]

I found the following discussion about prayer when I was teaching Ephesians many years ago in which some time was spent discussing prayer. The discuss included the following:

Edmund Clowney in the New Dictionary of Theology [page 526] writes on prayer as follows:
The Lord promises to hear and answer our prayers as we pray according to his will [1 John 5:14,15]. To pray according to God’s will means to make God’s word the guide for our prayers. Prayer seeks God’s will in faith, believing in his power to answer in His created universe [Matthew 21:21, 22]. In adoration we praise God for what he does and who he is. God’s holiness demands confession of sin; his grace invites supplication for pardon. In the communion of prayer we express our love for God and offer to him the tribute of our lives. By prayer the church resists the assaults of Satan [Matthew 26:41; Ephesians 6:13-20]; receives fresh gifts of grace [Acts 4:31]; seeks deliverance, healing and restoration for the saints [Ephesians 6:r8;James 5:15; 1 John 5.16]; supports the witness of the gospel [Colossains 4:3, 4]; seeks the return of the Lord [Revelation 22:20]; and, above all, worships him of whom, through whom, and unto whom are all things.



Clowney makes some very significant points about prayer.

Then the question, if God is sovereign why pray at all? God knows before we ask what our request will be and He knows how he will respond. Perhaps an answer to this question can be found in the life of the Apostle Paul.

2 Corinthians 12:8,9, NKJV
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.[/i]

Here we see a prayer, offered in faith, for a temporal need that was not granted. Commenting on this passage W. Bingham Hunter [The God Who Hears] writes:



I am not familiar with the author or the book but I believe he gives one of the best explanations of prayer I have heard/read.​

Yes and this is why "unspoken prayers" should NEVER be prayed. It is impossible to pray in faith if you do not know what you are praying for. Also there is no evidence in scripture that God heals us when we sinfully cause our own infirmities so many of those prayers are in vain.

 

[plain_n_simple]

So what would your approach be to avoid praying in vain Judith?

 

[HAMel]

So what would your approach be to avoid praying in vain Judith?

...to pray as the Scribes and Pharisees did? Simply for outward appearance?

 

[plain_n_simple]

...to pray as the Scribes and Pharisees did? Simply for outward appearance?

Um, no, I was asking a question. reference the Op

 

[Judith]

So what would your approach be to avoid praying in vain Judith?

Do not pray random meaningless prayers that you have no understanding what they are about and do not pray prayers that have no biblical evidence that God would answer.

 

[HAMel]

Um, no, I was asking a question. reference the Op

...sorry 'bout dat'. I was always under the impression the Scribes and Pharisees were guilty of praying in vain..., but I'm not in this conversation to begin with.

Carry on. I'll be in the area all day.

 

[Zaac]

We need to Get it right ahead of time, not pray sinfully and hope for correction.

Perhaps in an ideal fleshly world, we would think we need to get it right ahead of time. But an all knowing God KNOWS. :laugh:

He's big enough to use even our sinful prayers to correct us and point us in the right direction.

If He says NO to your sinful prayer, chances are you're gonna ask why. And the Holy Spirit will usually tell you why.

Prayer is connecting with God. And prayer doesn't have to be perfect. He can fix the imperfections and still get to us what He needs us to get.

 

[Zaac]

Do not pray random meaningless prayers that you have no understanding what they are about and do not pray prayers that have no biblical evidence that God would answer.

Again,I think you're approaching a very tenuous line of encouraging people to not pray. There isn't enough prayer. We don't need to encourage people to pray less.

Is there Biblical evidence that God doesn't hear random "meaningless" prayers? And if someone is praying it, how is it meaningless?

 

[plain_n_simple]

Do not pray random meaningless prayers that you have no understanding what they are about and do not pray prayers that have no biblical evidence that God would answer.

What prayers do you pray, that have results?

 

[The Biblicist]

What prayers do you pray, that have results?

The Bible is very clear about the answer to your question. Only those prayers that are in keeping with the will of God. Don't confuse God's revealed will with God's will of purpose. For example, God has appointed the precise time and circumstances of your death. You may be walking with God like Enoch and thus think you can claim all the promises of God in regard to health and other blessings but when it is your appointed time regardless of your praying for health you will die and the graveyard is proof of that. Every faith healer has died in spite of their faith and prayers to be healed.

Moreover, the general consequences of sin are inescapable as death proves. However, there are more inescapable consequences of sin than mere physical death. Every action in our life puts in place a series of reactions and consequences, regardless if God has forgiven us for bad actions. Still the reactions are set in motion and whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap regardless of praying for the contrary. You may be enabled to weather them better but not escape them.

 

[plain_n_simple]

The Bible is very clear about the answer to your question. Only those prayers that are in keeping with the will of God. Don't confuse God's revealed will with God's will of purpose. For example, God has appointed the precise time and circumstances of your death. You may be walking with God like Enoch and thus think you can claim all the promises of God in regard to health and other blessings but when it is your appointed time regardless of your praying for health you will die and the graveyard is proof of that. Every faith healer has died in spite of their faith and prayers to be healed.

Moreover, the general consequences of sin are inescapable as death proves. However, there are more inescapable consequences of sin than mere physical death. Every action in our life puts in place a series of reactions and consequences, regardless if God has forgiven us for bad actions. Still the reactions are set in motion and whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap regardless of praying for the contrary. You may be enabled to weather them better but not escape them.

Thanks but I was asking the lady.

 

[The Biblicist]

Thanks but I was asking the lady.

Your welcome, and don't worry, because there will be no charge, its free.

 

[Judith]

What prayers do you pray, that have results?

Prayers that are in agreement with His will.

 

[Zaac]

Prayers that are in agreement with His will.

So is the answer to the prayers you pray never NO?