Pre-Trib Rapture; Scriptural or Dispensational Fiction

[Grasshopper]

Are we in the end times? No one can know that.

1Pe 1:20 who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake,


"Houston, we have a problem"

 

[Todd W. White]

Amy said -

...reading about Disp.ism on the BB is what has led to my confusion on the subject. I have never been able to make sense of this doctrine.

Amy,

Hearing it, rather than reading it, may help.

Go to the link below to hear Dr. W. A. Criswell explain the issue - it is the verbal version of the printed text I originally posted buy him. It should help you a lot - if not to accept the idea, at least it will help you understand the position.

Message title: "God's Churches and the Great Tribulation"
Audio link: http://www.wacriswell.org/Search/videotrans.cfm/sermon/1601.cfm

 

[Grasshopper]

Amy said -



Amy,

Hearing it, rather than reading it, may help.

Go to the link below to hear Dr. W. A. Criswell explain the issue - it is the verbal version of the printed text I originally posted buy him. It should help you a lot - if not to accept the idea, at least it will help you understand the position.

Message title: "God's Churches and the Great Tribulation"
Audio link: http://www.wacriswell.org/Search/videotrans.cfm/sermon/1601.cfm

Then go here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=55978&page=19

To my responses #182-183

 

[Ed Edwards]

This topic should be continued over here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1347490#post1347490

Please Join us, especially if you want to express your idea of what the Bible says about Eschatology. Thank you for coming - bring your mind with you, and your Bible.

 

[OldRegular]

True. But having read those books and another one by Tim LaHaye (Are we in the end times?) and reading about Disp.ism on the BB is what has led to my confusion on the subject. I have never been able to make sense of this doctrine.

That is because the doctrine is not Biblical and cannot make sense. It fictionalizes the Incarnation by claiming that Jesus Christ came to establish a Messianic Kingdom for the Jews. No one on this forum could offer Scripture to the contrary!

It fictionalized the so-called rapture when Scripture clearly teaches that there will be a general resurrection and judgment.

John 5:28,29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It ignores hundreds of years of Baptist doctrine for the fables of Margaret MacDonald, John Darby, and Cyrus Scofield.

 

[OldRegular]

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were giuen two wings of a great Eagle, that shee might flee into the wildernesse into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and halfe a time, from the face of the serpent.

The Woman is the Church (which in the Tribulation period is National Israel).

You are saying that National Israel is the Church, the Bride of Jesus Christ. You better watch your back around other dispensationalists. That is heretical to dispensational doctrine.

 

[Marcia]

1Pe 1:20 who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake,


"Houston, we have a problem"

I am not sure this statement is the equivalent of the end times in the sense that the end has arrived or is about to. Jesus was "manifested at the end of times" I think means in the last days. I admit we are in the last days, but not that we are necessarily in the end times.

 

[Me4Him]

I am not sure this statement is the equivalent of the end times in the sense that the end has arrived or is about to. Jesus was "manifested at the end of times" I think means in the last days. I admit we are in the last days, but not that we are necessarily in the end times.

Last day"S" has an "S" on the end, "plural", meaning more than one day,

How long is a "day" with God???

Why is the MK referred to as the "SEVENTH DAY", how long is it???

So, if the 7th day is a 1000 years, how long do you suppose the other "SIX DAYS" will be???

If you can read a "WEEKLY SCHEDULE", you can read the "Signs of the times".

Mt 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.

3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

www.daysofgod.com

 

[Marcia]

Last day"S" has an "S" on the end, "plural", meaning more than one day,

How long is a "day" with God???

Why is the MK referred to as the "SEVENTH DAY", how long is it???

So, if the 7th day is a 1000 years, how long do you suppose the other "SIX DAYS" will be???

If you can read a "WEEKLY SCHEDULE", you can read the "Signs of the times".

Mt 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.

3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

www.daysofgod.comhttp://www.daysofgod.com

I am not sure what you are saying. I agree that there will be an end to things but I don't know that we can say we are in it. Didn't Jesus say no one would know?

 

[Ed Edwards]

This discussion has gone over here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=56360&page=2


You should go there also, especially after some Moderator closes this topic.
We are waiting you you.

 

[Me4Him]

I am not sure what you are saying. I agree that there will be an end to things but I don't know that we can say we are in it. Didn't Jesus say no one would know?

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Why would Jesus say that, then turn around and give us the "parables of the Fig Tree", when we see the leaves know the time was at the door, and "THIS GENERATION" wouldn't pass??

Only the "day and hour" is not to be known.

That is the most "misquoted", "misinterpreted" verse in the Bible.

Actually, when you understand the "Feast", you find out it really a close reference as to when the rapture will occur, rather than obscuring the "Season".

 

[Marcia]

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Why would Jesus say that, then turn around and give us the "parables of the Fig Tree", when we see the leaves know the time was at the door, and "THIS GENERATION" wouldn't pass??

Only the "day and hour" is not to be known.

That is the most "misquoted", "misinterpreted" verse in the Bible.

Actually, when you understand the "Feast", you find out it really a close reference as to when the rapture will occur, rather than obscuring the "Season".

I think when Jesus says the "day and hour" it means the time - no one knows the time. People who set dates for Jesus coming usually use this phrase the way you do. I don't think that's what it means. Jesus elaborates on this, clearly stating no one knows:

36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

...44"For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.


I don't think Jesus is saying we will know the month or week but not the hour!

 

[Me4Him]

I think when Jesus says the "day and hour" it means the time - no one knows the time. People who set dates for Jesus coming usually use this phrase the way you do. I don't think that's what it means. Jesus elaborates on this, clearly stating no one knows:

36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

...44"For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.


I don't think Jesus is saying we will know the month or week but not the hour!

I didn't establish the "FEAST" or their correspondance to events in the NT,

But I do understand them.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2e0mp6t.jpg

 

[DHK]

Time for this thread to close, as it well past 30 pages.