Preachers

he was certainly old enoughraying: :laugh:[/QUOTE]

Well if he is almost as old as Moses, how old does that make his grandson?

 

OLD!!!!:laugh: :laugh:

(hee hee hee, tiny now slips out of the room just before JoJ arrives!)

 

Just got back from a great trip to Okinawa (lives changed, four fish caught in the deep sea), and see my age discussed. You young whippersnappers probably never even heard Jonathan Edwards preach, or even Spurgeon for that matter! :tongue3: :tongue3:

 

Don't know how Tiny knew you would post next but if you have some tapes I'd sure like to listen.

How about Jesus and John the Baptist?

 

Tapes? Naw, I wasn't much with this new fangled technology in those days. And by the way, John the Baptist really was a Baptist just like we are--he told me so. :laugh:

 

I do wonder how they preached. Picture preaching to 1K people with no PA? Everyone who has preached knows the more you raise your voice the more excited you get which makes you raise your voice and soon you'll be showering the front row...

 

Win 'em and baptize 'em at the same time--if you believe in sprinkling! :laugh:

We're spoiled, aren't we, we all the equipment we have. But proper projection and voice training is still important.

 

Spurgeon,
Pink

seem a couple of preachers I'd like to actually hear rather than just read.

Regards
Bob

 

:flower: Note the flower is wilting at that thought! :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

John Gill- I'd like to shake the hand of the only individual to ever write commentary on every single verse in the Bible.
And I would have loved to have met Dr. Oliver B. Greene.

In person, I heard Dr. R .G. Lee preach "Payday! Some Day!", and have heard Dr. Lee Roberson, Dr. J. D. Grey, and Dr. W. A. Criswell although I met none of them, heard and met Dr. Curtis Hudson, and met Dr. John R. Rice, as well.

Ed

 

None. They are all dead. But I do learn the most from the sermons in scripture.

 

Jonathon Edwards
Jonathon Owens
Al Mohler
Mark Dever
My current pastor Steve Walter

Joseph Botwinick

 

To be honest, if he was half as good of a preacher as my grandfather - he was good enough to write the book of Hebrews even if he didn't . . .

 

John, (and all the others who posted to this) wasn't it said of Paul that he was actually not a good preacher, unlike Apollos, who was a good preacher (and was the one who wrote Hebrews :thumbsup? {laugh} {laugh} {laugh} (Had to write out the "laughs", as the BB now only allows four, or half the old- number!) {laugh}

Ed

 

:laugh::laugh:
Okay, Ed, point taken about Paul, but I've got just as much evidence that John R. Rice wrote the book of Hebrews as you do that this Apollos guy did! :smilewinkgrin:

 

Roloff was acused of abusing and torturing children in the care of his "homes" for decades. He skirted the law, moved kids to different states and handed ownership of the homes back and forth to his various legal entities to avoid prosecution.

He was one evil man, and I worry about anyone who admires such a person.

 

Yeah, he 'abused' little girls who were pregnant out of wedlock by helping them find godly parents to adopt their babies and making them memorize Psalms. He 'abused' young men who had discipline and law-breaking problems by teaching them what could be gained by hard work and respect for others. Quite an evil guy that Dr. Roloff.

You don't happen to have worked for CPS in the state of Texas at the time, do you?

 

He did a lot more than that. There should be a special hell for child abusers like this so-called "man of God".

And no, I didn't work for CPS in Texas at the time...I worked in the media at the time and know all too well some of the abuse and legal shenanigans pulled by Roloff and his cronies.

 

Oh, you worked in the media. Well that sure convinces me!! How in the world could the media possibly get it wrong about a Fundamentalist?

Truth: I'm not a Roloff fan, but I never heard any credible accusations against him. Trot out your proof and let us judge it.

 

No, working in the media has no bearing on the veracity of the charges against Roloff, but his history, and that of his staff, do. I am not interested in getting into a long debate over Roloff, just know that I was part of a team that did fair and unbiased investigation into the Roloff homes for a major news network in Texas, and know about some of what went on. Roloff tried to position this all as church/state issues, but in fact, he didn't want state oversight because it would have opened up the goings on to public scrutiny. The Roloff homes finally had to shut down in Texas, since they refused to allow child welfare to examine treatment of minors in their care. Roloff is known to have been guilty of paddling pregnant teen girls who didn't tow the line. There are even Rebekah Survivors support groups for girls who endured maltreatment at the hands of Roloff and his abusive staff. I am not saying all staff members were abusers, but I seem to recall that two were found guilty after Roloff's death in a plane crash.

If you are interested, you can research it very easily; I won't do all your research for you. That said, here are a few things for you to digest:

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From the Austin Chronicle
http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A79818

At that time, the mother of a teenage girl living in the Rebekah Home for Girls (the Roloff Home for girls 17 and younger) reported that her daughter had been tied up with duct tape. Just months later, James Cavallin, 17, a resident at the Lighthouse home for men, a self-styled "Christian boot camp," made a sworn statement to the Nueces County Sheriff's Office that he had been abused by officials of the home, according to the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. Supervisors at the home had suspected Cavallin and another teenager of trying to escape and in response, roped them together and banged their heads together a few times, according to the statement. Then, Allen Smith, an employee of the home, forced the two boys to run barefoot through brush into the woods, hitting them with a stick when they slowed down. The boys were taken into the woods, according to the Caller-Times, where they were forced to dig in a pit, while school personnel looked on. "They threw dirt clods and rocks at us and they also threw empty cans," Cavallin's statement says. The statement also claims that on the cold March night when the incident occurred, Lighthouse employees urinated on the boys and threw ice water on them. At around 2am, after four or five hours of digging, the boys were told they would have to jump the pit if they wanted to rest. Justin Simons, 18, did so, spraining both ankles and breaking three toes. Smith was arrested in connection with the case, as was pastor and program operator Wiley Cameron, who refused to turn over the home's papers that were requested by the sheriff's office.
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from http://www.isaccorp.org/faccca.asp
Faye Cameron, Currently Operating the New Beginnings Rebekah Home - Pace, Florida

Until 1999, Faye Cameron was a supervisor at a Texas facility called the Rebekah Home for Girls.
The facility was one of several Roloff Homes - named for Lester Roloff - and the source of many allegations of abuse spanning more than 3 decades.
Roloff himself was notorious for paddling pregnant girls in his homes for "unwed mothers" as well as declaring that he preferred "death or jail" to state licensing of his facilities.
After Roloff's death, Wiley Cameron, Sr - husband of Faye Cameron - took over Roloff's position as President of Roloff Ministries.
In 1999, Faye Cameron was banned from ever working at or being present at ANY juvenile facility in Texas after authorities confirmed that she had duct-taped the wrists of a girl, then locked her in a room.
At the time, the Rebekah Home was accredited by the Texas Association of Christian Child Care Agencies (TACCCA) - the Texas equivalent to FACCCA.
Wiley Cameron, Sr. was a TACCCA board member.

Even though his wife had been convicted of mistreating a child, TACCCA continued to accredit the Rebekah Home for Girls.
In 2001, after findings of abuse at several TACCCA-accredited facilities, the Texas Legislature decided not to reauthorize the Alternative Accreditation program and TACCCA was dissolved.
The Roloff Homes then moved out of Texas.
The Rebekah Home - Director Banned from Working with Kids, Husband a Member of the Accreditation Board
Husband of Accused Director to Resign Position on Accreditation Board
Former "Student" of the Rebekah Home Tells of Abuse at the Hands of Faye Cameron
Wiley Cameron, Jr. Accused of Child Abuse at a Roloff Home
Wiley Cameron, Sr. Arrested for Refusing to Release Records to Authorities
Warning Signs as Pres. Bush Expands Texas-Style Program to National Level
Faith-Based Homes on Trial (TACCCA)
Faith-Based Plan Lacks Oversight (TACCCA)
Lester Roloff - Death or Jail, but NO Licensing
Court Approves Closure of Roloff Homes


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