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"Preaching it straight" does not mean. . .
- Thread starter Spoudazo
- Start date
4His_glory
New Member
It is one thing to bring an accusation of sin against an elder, its quite another to disagree with his teachings on some issues.
I wonder, was it a sin for the Bereans to search out what Paul told them to see if it was so? In essense to not just take his word for it, but see if it was in the Old Testament?
Thats the problem in our churches today, whether they are liberal or legalistic, people just don't search out the scriptures and test what their Pastors say by the Word of God. Is the pastor preaching the 'straight' Word of God? Or is he mixing his opinion in with the Word and not distinquishing between his opinion and what the Word of God actually says.
IFBReformer </font>[/QUOTE]I agree. It is my understanding that this passage is talking about a problem with sin in the preachers life, not a problem with his teaching.
Paul brought Peter into question on his teachings, and he did it without any additional wittnesses, at least we have no record of them.
Legalistic preaching, thats goal is to modify behavior rather than deal with heart issues is the bane of fundamental churches. IMHO, it is just as much a porblem as preahcers who are compromisers.
4His_glory
New Member
Any time a preahcer challenges his people to "get their heart right with God" by doing this, this, and such and such, he is denying the finnished work of Christ on Calvary. Sin was dealt with once, and the preacher must point his audience to that fact, and that they must rest in Christs sufficency, and God's grace to deal with sin in their lives.
4His_glory
New Member
Sorry, after reviewing my post, I noticed that it was a little foggy, so I will try to calrify.
I am talking about believers here, not lost folks. There are some preachers who will deal with a specific problem and then give a list of things that one must do to overcome that problem.
Be it pornography, anger, bitterness, etc. It comes across that YOU as a beleiver can do somthing about sin in your life. Christ has already removed this sin from your life, so all a believer must do is confess it before Him and trust in His grace to deal with the problem.
I hope that clears things up a little bit.
I am talking about believers here, not lost folks. There are some preachers who will deal with a specific problem and then give a list of things that one must do to overcome that problem.
Be it pornography, anger, bitterness, etc. It comes across that YOU as a beleiver can do somthing about sin in your life. Christ has already removed this sin from your life, so all a believer must do is confess it before Him and trust in His grace to deal with the problem.
I hope that clears things up a little bit.
4His_glory
New Member
Funny how we use certain words, and know what we mean by them, but other easily mistake them. Any one who is married can knows that one! 
Christlifter
New Member
My pastor is that man in dicussion who "preaches it straight"
Faith Baptist Tabernacle
North Highlands, CA
Stop by sometime if in the Sacramento Area!
Faith Baptist Tabernacle
North Highlands, CA
Stop by sometime if in the Sacramento Area!
I agree with Diane. I get very uncomfortable sometimes when Pastor touches on certain topics like overeating or movies, but I do believe that the Holy Spirit is working on me when I get annoyed by what he says.
I like a preacher who tells the truth and ruffles feathers. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen, right?
I agree also. I like a preacher who gives us the whole counsel of God and doesn't sugar coat it.
One thing annoys me to no end is this notion some folks have when a preacher gets "personal" and them folks will call it meddling. ARGH! That gripes me. If one thinks it is meddling then perhaps pastor hit just the right nerve.
In HIS service;
Jim
One thing annoys me to no end is this notion some folks have when a preacher gets "personal" and them folks will call it meddling. ARGH! That gripes me. If one thinks it is meddling then perhaps pastor hit just the right nerve.
In HIS service;
Jim
A personal experience. As most of you know, I am the deaf pastor of a deaf church. We dont wear coats and ties for several reasons. One, it is very distractive and a solid colored shirt is better, provides a background for your hands as you sign. Second, culturally, deaf are more casual and also less likely to be able to afford the suits and ties. Finally, it is too hard to move with a coat and tie and preaching in dramatic fashion with your whole body makes a coat and tie the LAST thing you want to wear.
So, long ago when I was full time evangelist, there were times when I was in my home church and I dressed in nice dress pants and nice solid colored shirt. This angered the pastor a great deal and one day, he decided to preach about it.
He got up and preached for thuirty minutes about dress code for preachers and how they should be above..etc.etc
When it was over, I asked to speak with the pastor. He agreed with a smile. We went into his office and he closed the door. He said, Let me guess, the sermon has made you angry??? I said Yes it did. He said I knew it would. I said let's discuss it. Again, what passage did you preach from? He looked at me..shocked.. I said.. Brother, you didnt open your Bible and you didnt use ANY scripture.
THAT is NOT preaching it straight!
So, long ago when I was full time evangelist, there were times when I was in my home church and I dressed in nice dress pants and nice solid colored shirt. This angered the pastor a great deal and one day, he decided to preach about it.
He got up and preached for thuirty minutes about dress code for preachers and how they should be above..etc.etc
When it was over, I asked to speak with the pastor. He agreed with a smile. We went into his office and he closed the door. He said, Let me guess, the sermon has made you angry??? I said Yes it did. He said I knew it would. I said let's discuss it. Again, what passage did you preach from? He looked at me..shocked.. I said.. Brother, you didnt open your Bible and you didnt use ANY scripture.
THAT is NOT preaching it straight!
AVL1984
<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
I agree, Logos, and this is one reason my wife and I left the IFB movement.
Too many times we found that man's OPINION of what the Bible said without it actually saying it was being preached as Bible doctrine. I'm not saying ALL IFB preachers do this, but a great majority of them did in the churches we attended! We are now Southern Baptist and we hear the "whole counsel" of God without man's opinion interjected...just what the BIBLE itself says on the subject!You left IFB to go to the SBC? I know many who left the IFB and went elsewhere for the same reason. The problem is a man who is pastoring for years and cannot be challenged and never has to answer for what he says is going to throw his opinion in his messages. On most Sundays, long ago, I visited different churches each week and sometimes I would watch the pastors throw out their opinions all the time, and eating with some of the families after, I know they didnt like it.
One pastor I recall spefically said that those not giving to the pot for the new church building would be cursed. He said he would also pray that God would punish them, etc.
Another incident happened approximately 1991 that truly still has me feeling a little guilty. I made a mistake, i think.
I was attending a church that had just watched their pastor of 10+ years drive off and a new pastor was chosen. The pastor had plans to do a one month series on "priorities", which was a good idea. As time went on, and my stay with that church was nearing end, I watched the pastor as he became frustrated with attendance. His messages were extremely dry and without any kind of direction.He fussed at all the people in the church for not doing their share in the Great Commission. I thought most of them were trying to bring people in. The pastor began to use the pulpit for bullying people and was extremely harsh on one family. With only a few weeks before I was to move out into another area, he and I sat and had lunch. I felt bad because I knew he was not going to like what I said. I have never seen someone use so much manipulation, threats, bullying, personal opinion, etc, from the pulpit in all my years.
When he asked me what i thought was wrong with his church, I told him just that. I also added that I thought his messages were more like Sunday School lessons.
A sermon MUST have a proposition, a desired response that the speaker wants from his people. That is what separates preaching from teaching, and this man was definitely not PREACHING.
He was extremely upset with me, but I told him his biggest problem was he did not think he had to answer to anyone and could just steamroll and do what he wanted to. He used the sermon as a chance to lash out and voice his personal pet peeves. Just a disaster, and in a matter of months, he lost the core families of the church and about 18 months after I left, he resigned as pastor.
One thing I stress when I am training preachers is they MUST let the word of God change people. Preach the word and let the Spirit do HIS work. He will convict, etc. Too many pastors try to change the people using the pulpit in the wrong way and also use manipulation and subtle tactics. The smarter and more discerning folks will not stick around long.
The story ends on a sad note. The pastor lost his (very precious) wife and his kids will not have anything to do with him. Now married a third time, I hear, and just living in the world.
He left behind destruction and hurt that left the strongest person in his church so devastated that he does not attend church anymore. Quite a few families have followed suit.
Sad.
One pastor I recall spefically said that those not giving to the pot for the new church building would be cursed. He said he would also pray that God would punish them, etc.
Another incident happened approximately 1991 that truly still has me feeling a little guilty. I made a mistake, i think.
I was attending a church that had just watched their pastor of 10+ years drive off and a new pastor was chosen. The pastor had plans to do a one month series on "priorities", which was a good idea. As time went on, and my stay with that church was nearing end, I watched the pastor as he became frustrated with attendance. His messages were extremely dry and without any kind of direction.He fussed at all the people in the church for not doing their share in the Great Commission. I thought most of them were trying to bring people in. The pastor began to use the pulpit for bullying people and was extremely harsh on one family. With only a few weeks before I was to move out into another area, he and I sat and had lunch. I felt bad because I knew he was not going to like what I said. I have never seen someone use so much manipulation, threats, bullying, personal opinion, etc, from the pulpit in all my years.
When he asked me what i thought was wrong with his church, I told him just that. I also added that I thought his messages were more like Sunday School lessons.
A sermon MUST have a proposition, a desired response that the speaker wants from his people. That is what separates preaching from teaching, and this man was definitely not PREACHING.
He was extremely upset with me, but I told him his biggest problem was he did not think he had to answer to anyone and could just steamroll and do what he wanted to. He used the sermon as a chance to lash out and voice his personal pet peeves. Just a disaster, and in a matter of months, he lost the core families of the church and about 18 months after I left, he resigned as pastor.
One thing I stress when I am training preachers is they MUST let the word of God change people. Preach the word and let the Spirit do HIS work. He will convict, etc. Too many pastors try to change the people using the pulpit in the wrong way and also use manipulation and subtle tactics. The smarter and more discerning folks will not stick around long.
The story ends on a sad note. The pastor lost his (very precious) wife and his kids will not have anything to do with him. Now married a third time, I hear, and just living in the world.
He left behind destruction and hurt that left the strongest person in his church so devastated that he does not attend church anymore. Quite a few families have followed suit.
Sad.
I just felt maybe I could have been less condemning but the man was preaching the most DRY messages, I could tell he was doing it without the power of the Spirit. The most insulting thing a person can tell a preacher is "you can't preach". No preacher wants to hear that, but that is basically what I was trying to tell him. It wasnt that he could not preach.. the problem was he stood and preached in his own power when he decided that he had a message for the people from his own mind.
As for IFB, more than anyone else (maybe United Pentecostals are the same on this one), IFB pastors often spend more time filling their churches with pride preaching these "We don't do that" messages.
My seminary professor in New Orleans was talking about preaching in his church in White Castle, La.. an area that is about 94% Catholic. He told us the biggest mistake he ever made there was preaching the 10 Commandments one-by-one for ten weeks straight. He said doing that is not wrong, and he had done it before with good response and many came forward to repent, but in this particular church.. each week, the church members would listen to his message and then say.. " I don't do that,... and I dont do that". Church became filled with pride and became judgmental.
Last, I know that many who are pastors will scoff at the idea of someone like me, an evangelist, critiquing their ministry or their preaching, etc. MOST pastors look down on me because I am not one who travels and preaches revivals (the common practice by those calling themselves "evangelists" today). There are many times when i have kept quiet when I really felt led to tell a pastor something I noticed. Oh, and.. many times the pastors have shared their opinion bluntly with me. The best analogy I think I can come up with is related to my days as a baseball player. My coach, one who was 6 years older than I am, and who I had seen play before, was definitely not a better hitter than I was. No way.. he was NOT a hitter.. more of a pitcher who sat down and had someone bat in his place (DH--designated hitter). In the midst of my sophmore year, he confronted me with a few things about why I had entered a slump. Sure enough, I had began to squat a little more, dropped my hands and began lowering my shoulder. I popped up pretty often and when he came to me and told me what I was doing wrong, I changed, and it did make a difference.
So, as an evangelist sees a pastor making mistakes, its good to say something at the right time and in the right way. I just felt that I was telling this man that just about EVERYTHING he was doing... was wrong, and it was. Makes me feel a little guilty.
As for IFB, more than anyone else (maybe United Pentecostals are the same on this one), IFB pastors often spend more time filling their churches with pride preaching these "We don't do that" messages.
My seminary professor in New Orleans was talking about preaching in his church in White Castle, La.. an area that is about 94% Catholic. He told us the biggest mistake he ever made there was preaching the 10 Commandments one-by-one for ten weeks straight. He said doing that is not wrong, and he had done it before with good response and many came forward to repent, but in this particular church.. each week, the church members would listen to his message and then say.. " I don't do that,... and I dont do that". Church became filled with pride and became judgmental.
Last, I know that many who are pastors will scoff at the idea of someone like me, an evangelist, critiquing their ministry or their preaching, etc. MOST pastors look down on me because I am not one who travels and preaches revivals (the common practice by those calling themselves "evangelists" today). There are many times when i have kept quiet when I really felt led to tell a pastor something I noticed. Oh, and.. many times the pastors have shared their opinion bluntly with me. The best analogy I think I can come up with is related to my days as a baseball player. My coach, one who was 6 years older than I am, and who I had seen play before, was definitely not a better hitter than I was. No way.. he was NOT a hitter.. more of a pitcher who sat down and had someone bat in his place (DH--designated hitter). In the midst of my sophmore year, he confronted me with a few things about why I had entered a slump. Sure enough, I had began to squat a little more, dropped my hands and began lowering my shoulder. I popped up pretty often and when he came to me and told me what I was doing wrong, I changed, and it did make a difference.
So, as an evangelist sees a pastor making mistakes, its good to say something at the right time and in the right way. I just felt that I was telling this man that just about EVERYTHING he was doing... was wrong, and it was. Makes me feel a little guilty.
AVL1984
<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
My sister is divorcing her husband who is a former IFB preacher. For many years he "kept her in line" with mental abuse and separation from her family members, even going to the extent of not telling her that family members had called, deleting emails, throwing away letters, etc. He preached down to his people and interjected his own interpretations of the Bible, and now it's cost him. His church folded two weeks ago, and the divorce will be final in mid-May. He wouldn't work to support his family...quitting his job to start the church because my sister made more money than he did, and basically became a 'lay-about'. He's working now....he's got to pay child support or he goes to jail.
I know he is living in an IFB dreamworld. He wants to "follow his dream" of just having a church..even one started as a mission...support him fully so he won't have to work outside of the church. Not even close to realistic in todays society. Many pastors are bi-vocational, but he says those pastors aren't fully trusting in God. It's really very sad. The saddest part is that he has five daughters (two sets of twins and a single).
I know he is living in an IFB dreamworld. He wants to "follow his dream" of just having a church..even one started as a mission...support him fully so he won't have to work outside of the church. Not even close to realistic in todays society. Many pastors are bi-vocational, but he says those pastors aren't fully trusting in God. It's really very sad. The saddest part is that he has five daughters (two sets of twins and a single).
