Predestination, what did you do to be predestined for Heaven?

According to the Greek, how should it be rendered? pistis = faith

 

"Made the provision for all?" We understand your position all too well, most of us were freewillies too at one time in our lives. No where in scripture does God teach us that salvation was a mere "provision." This goes back to the same old arguement: Where does faith come from? No matter which path you take to answer that question you will find God at the end of it.

You even said "until man by God's grace believes." Yes, that's it. It is by grace that we even believe, so how can it be that God merely made provisions for our salvation when he is the one who "works in us to will and to act according to his good pleasure." It is He who begins a good work in us and it is He that promises to complete that work.

Sam

 

Or both. That is the $64,000 question, so to speak. But my point is that maybe divisions aren't desirable, but sometimes they exist because of things like heresies or bad doctrine. And what is one supposed to do at that point? Pretend the bad doctrine isn't bad just so it will appear as if you're unified?

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you that unity is preferable. But IMO elevating unity above truth is not -- unless you're a Unitarian, I guess

 

You posted -

I like that version better. So which is the herecy, Calvinism or Arminianism? Since I am neither, I have no problem with your answer.

It still says there must be differences among you. I have a great problem with those who are willing to sacrifice good doctrine for unity. Unity is important, but it should not be more important than proper doctrine. We cannot build the foundation of our life on unity; the foundation of unity is proper doctrine. If we gather around anything, we must gather around something that does not change. That being God. Not who we think God should be, but who God is, and revealed himself to be. I am sick of churches screaming "Unity!" when what they mean is "Universalism!? Forsaking all doctrine does not result in unity, it results in godlessness. It is like taking away the corn and leaving the husk. It sure looks like a god, but it won't feed anyone.

 

Oh, and you also posted that -

Yet to say that God has predestined some for hell and some for heaven is unBiblical.

Read Romans 9:22,23, I think it is very biblical. Just because it doesn't cause me to write songs like "Friends are friends forever" and other camp favorites, doesn't make it unbiblical.

 

I agree that these verses can provide a basis fro double predestination. It is not, however, a necessary conclusion, nor is the doctrine of double predestination necessary for a calvanist to hold.

 

The_Narrow_Way,

WHo said on this thread, that if you are not a Clavinist, then you are not saved? It has never been said, or thought by any calvinist I know. The point is that we as Christians are to work out our salvation. We are to discuss issues of theology, and hash them out with the light of scripture. This is the major problem with the SBC. 10% are ultra conservative, 10% are ultra liberal, and the major problem is, 80% of baptist are saying, "Why can't we just forget doctrine so that we can all get along!"

So to say that any debating over scripture is not glorifying to God is so untrue. You might want to check the scriptures for that.

 

But it only fails to be a fundamental issue in your opinion.

Much of what Paul wrote in his epistles is reproof regarding bad doctrine, yet one could easily claim that these are not "fundamental" issues because his audience was already saved. So why did God embarrass the whole of Christendom by allowing these books to be published?

 

And I never meant to imply that I believed in double predestination. I belive man, without Gods intervening is going to Hell, and if man is in heaven it is because God is gracious. I am sorry if it seemed otherwise. I was just replying to the fact that a poster stated that the idea that God would predestinate anyone for anything is unbiblical.

 

If you are predestined for salvation, what is there to work out?</font>[/QUOTE]Again, you like many are confusing justification with sanctification. We are to work out our salvation. This is speaking of sanctification. Being made holy.

 

Would someone please define how what Calvin or Armenius believed effects an individuals salvation?

For your personal salvation, do you think that God cares one whit whether you believe what Calvin or Arminius believed?

The scriptures tell me that it is whether or not you believe what Jesus, God's only begotten Son says that matters. And Jesus said "whosoever believeth in me shall have eternal life". Seems to me that settles the arguement, but just in case you are not convinced, you can go right on arguing, that is what siblings do best isn't it?

 

The difference is as follows.

Arminiansism - Belief, or faith, is an action that results in Salvation.

Calvinism - Belief, or faith is a response that resulted from salvation.

Beleif in God is what saves, but belief, as stated in many of our posts, is from God. Phillipians 1, "it has not only been granted you to believe, butalso to suffer for his sake."

So to answer your other question. Yes I do believe it matters that we believed.

 

For your personal salvation? It depends on where you are placing your trust. If, by believing in Arminianism, you are placing your trust in your ability to make your own decisions for salvation and (as some have suggested) good works for maintaining that salvation, then I have to question whether or not you are saved. I am not saying you are not saved, but I would be concerned.

But in general, no, I would not say that God saves a person based on Arminianism or Calvinism, nor do I believe God "unsaves" a person based on either.

Does God care what you believe in this matter not in respect to your salvation? Ask Him. I personally believe He does, and IMO it matters a great deal. My two top reasons for believing this are 1) because so much of the Bible is dedicated to the topic and 2) because IMO one glorifies God more than the other.

What - you mean siblings are best at creating artificial divisions? Maybe so, since what you stated creates such an artificial division. I don't know of a single Calvinist who would argue with John 3:16, so I don't see why you keep bringing it up as a point of difference.