Um....yes. I agree (I have never claimed otherwise).
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Predestination:
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AndyMartin
Active Member
The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he issued a proclamation and published through Nineveh, “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water, but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.” When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it
AndyMartin
Active Member
So, salvation is earned by not doing anything wrong?
I don't think so.
It seems much more likely to me that God numbers those who die in infancy among the elect according to his Mercy and Grace.
As for election not being scriptural, I will not post all 145 verses teaching election as I am sure you can find them for yourself.
I am referring to the Calvinistic teaching of election.
AndyMartin
Active Member
Luke 13:3, " I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish"
Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem"
Acts 2:38, "And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"
Acts 3:19-20, "Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus"
I gave you Psalm 51:5. Surely you don't think David, while still in the womb, was committing acts of sin, do you?
And I already answered your assertion that anyone is saying that Jesus was born without a nature common to mankind. It is a nonsense objection.
Our "nature" is the basic or inherent features of being human.
Adam was human but was not, at the time of his creation, fallen and thus sinful.
Jesus was 100% human while being 100% divine and without sin.
Being sinful is not an inherent feature of our nature, which was created in the image and likeness of God.
Being a sinner is the result of the destruction Adam passed on, via his federal/seminal headship, to his descendants.
It is impossible to accept the hypostatic union of Christ while failing to see His not being under the federal headship of Adam and thus not having a fallen nature.
Which is? Do all "Calvinists" believe and teach the same thing regarding the fate of infants who die in infancy?
What does that even mean?
This is one thing I was getting at. Scripture expounds very well on certain doctrines but I have not seen this one presented in detail anywhere close to the extent we seem to teach it. Jesus is often described as the Son of God, begotten of the Father, ect. Which verses tells us that the reason for the Virgin Birth was not the Sonship of Christ but to prevent Him from being a "son of Adam"? Which verses describe Jesus as being a type of human but not human like the rest of mankind?
I understand that we work out theology and theories, and I do respect this. I am not claiming that your view is wrong but I am asking by way of challenging your position for the best support you can offer.
Yes. The power of God unto salvation is in Jesus. Not in you or me.
AndyMartin
Active Member
Because David said what he did regarding his son, cannot be taken as the "norm" of how God acts, as he could have been told by God about his son's eternal state. One cannot base "theology" on a single verse, especially when the rest of the Bible says nothing.
That is blasphemy, and if you keep it up this discussion is over.
AndyMartin
Active Member
David's infant son, does not mean the same for all who die in infancy. My point being that it has nothing to do with "election" or "predestined"
That is in regard to sparing the destruction of a city, not the damnation of a person. Try again if you feel you must.
AndyMartin
Active Member
Jesus is "like" other human being. the difference is that His "human nature" is sinless and therefore not fallen
AndyMartin
Active Member
?
All 145 verses?
Andy, it seems you just don't understand God's election of His children.
AndyMartin
Active Member
Jesus is LIKE us in that He is sinless
AndyMartin
Active Member
neither do Calvinists!
Why not? Is God a respecter of persons?
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