AndyMartin
Active Member
Its "theology"
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Predestination:
- Thread starter Berean
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Its "theology"
Yep, in those specific circumstances the call was for repentance, but even there salvation is not given as if it were a doggie treat given to the ones who did the trick correctly.
There is no verse that demands repentance for salvation.
Repentance does take place, but it is after God has chosen to save the person by His act of grace. If this were not the case then you would have reason to boast.
Really? And how do you know what each and every "Calvinist" knows and understands?
AndyMartin
Active Member
But this can be read different as the Greek of verse 12 is not clear
So, another "no answer" answer? Why dodge the question? If you don't know the answer just say so.
AndyMartin
Active Member
I am speaking generally, as those on the board
It still doesn't address the fact that God was sparing the lives in a city, not saving their eternal souls.Jonah was sent to preach to the PEOPLE, not the bricks!
How so. Explain election as taught in the scriptures.
AndyMartin
Active Member
you will not listen and learn...
That's a cop-out. It tells me you don't know.
AndyMartin
Active Member
The election under consideration relates to election in its redemptive aspect.
The Scriptures speak of an election that relates to a nation (Rom. 9:4;
11:28); one that relates to a particular office (Moses and Aaron, Ps. 105:26;
David, 1 Sam. 16:12; 20:30; Solomon, 1 Chron. 28:5; the apostles, Luke
6:13-16; John 6:70; Acts 1:2, 24; 9:15; 22:14); and one that relates to the
unfallen angels (1 Tim. 5:21). In its redemptive aspect, election means that
sovereign act of God whereby he graciously chose in Jesus Christ for salvation
all those whom he foreknew.
Election is a sovereign act of God; he is under no obligation to elect
anyone, since all have lost their standing before God. Even after Christ died,
God was not obligated to apply that salvation, except as he owed it to Christ
to keep the agreement with him as to man’s salvation. Thus, election is a
sovereign act because it is not due to any constraint laid upon God. It is an act
of grace, in that he chose those who were utterly unworthy of salvation.
Man deserved the exact opposite, but in his grace God chose to save some. He
chose them “in Christ” (Eph. 1:4). He could not choose them in themselves
because they deserved judgment, so he chose them in the merits of another.
Furthermore, he chose those whom he foreknew. But how do foreknowledge
and predestination relate to election?
At this point we move into one of the great mysteries of our Christian
faith. The Christian church is divided on the understanding of this doctrine
especially as it relates to divine sovereignty and human responsibility
coupled with the righteousness and holiness of God and the sinfulness of
man. Scripture indicates that election is based on foreknowledge (1 Pet.
1: If. ; cf. Rom. 8 : 29), but the actual meaning of foreknowledge is debated. Is
it merely prescience or foresight, or does it relate more closely to actual
choice? Does God, in his foreknowledge, perceive what each man will do in
response to his call and then elect him to salvation in harmony with this
knowledge? Or does foreknowledge mean that God, from eternity past,
looked with favor upon some and then elected them to salvation? Both of
these positions must be set forth with arguments for and against.
- HENRY CLARENCE THIESSEN
Spot on!
An analysis concludes we were alive when we heard Christ's gospel, then put our faith in Christ, and then if God credited our faith as righteousness and set us apart in Christ, we experienced our conditional election for salvation. With the right understanding all scripture fits together and there is no need to say this verse or that verse does not mean what it says.
Well, let's see:
Scrivener's TR
δια τουτο ωσπερ δι ενος ανθρωπου η αμαρτια εις τον κοσμον εισηλθεν και δια της αμαρτιας ο θανατος και ουτως εις παντας ανθρωπους ο θανατος διηλθεν εφ ω παντες ημαρτον
WH
Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι᾿ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κόσμον εἰσῆλθεν καὶ διὰ τῆς ἁμαρτίας ὁ θάνατος, καὶ οὕτως εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν, ἐφ᾿ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον·
BYZ
δια τουτο ωσπερ δι ενος ανθρωπου η αμαρτια εις τον κοσμον εισηλθεν και δια της αμαρτιας ο θανατος και ουτως εις παντας ανθρωπους ο θανατος διηλθεν εφ ω παντες ημαρτον
So, what part of that is not clear to you?
Because-of this even-as through one human the missing (of the mark) unto the (world) system entered and through missing (of the mark) death entered into all humans and passed through to all humans.
Or, as all major translation get it right:
Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.
Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned.
That is a pretty lame excuse. Any time the bible proves you wrong you trot out the old "The Greek is unclear." Or, "one copy of one old translation uses a different word so the other 1000+ Greek manuscripts must be wrong."
So each and every person on the board who you call a "Calvinist" believes exactly the same thing about those who die in infancy?
What does that even mean? He is like US? Sinless? Since when are people sinless?
Why dodge the question?
AndyMartin
Active Member
Jesus' human nature was "like" ours (read Philippians 2:5-8; Romans 8:3) it was 100% real but without any sin. This is standard theology!
AndyMartin
Active Member
Read the response
AndyMartin
Active Member
No, every Calvinists here debating that I can see, all have the same angle.
So, if David, a saved man, a man after God's own heart, went to the same place his son went, then his son went to heaven. So, the question remains, is God a respecter of persons?
Can David's son who died in infancy go to heaven but my son who died in infancy can't?
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