predestination

[HisServant]

So it is God's will that none perish.

He sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world.

People perish.

This begs the question, why do people perish. Is it because it is God's will that they perish?
2 Thess 2:
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So God is not powerful enough to save everyone.

Zechariah 4:5-7 (King James Version)
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

There must be more to the fact that it is God's will that none perish than what meets the eye.

What you see in scripture is insufficient for you, is thaqt what you mean?

 

[historyb]

God did not choose us to be christians, he chose christians to be his favored ones whom he calls his elect.

It is in Scripture that He choose us very plainly

 

[MB]

It is in Scripture that He choose us very plainly

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
MB

 

[annsni]

This begs the question, why do people perish. Is it because it is God's will that they perish?
2 Thess 2:
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

They didn't receive the love of truth? Maybe someone didn't give it to them??

Zechariah 4:5-7 (King James Version)
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.



What you see in scripture is insufficient for you, is thaqt what you mean?

Scripture is absolutely sufficient for me. What I'm saying is that it's clear in Scripture that election is truth. That predestination is true.

It's also true that it is God's will that none would perish. Though it is not His will that this happens, it does. So there must be more to the story than the verses that say, out of context, that God doesn't want anyone to perish.

 

[MB]

We have to remember that Salvation isn't of our selves, but of God.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If we have anything to do with it then it isn't of God.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is God who draws us John 6:44.
It is the Holy Spirit that convinces us of the gospel through the word. The convincing gives us faith. The very moment we believe we are saved. and our belief is the product of our being convinced. Salvation is all of God. It isn't forced because most of us won't listen long enough to be convinced.

Belief plus nothing and we are saved. It's that simple.
MB

 

[webdog]

They didn't receive the love of truth? Maybe someone didn't give it to them??

...or what it actually means...because the rejected it (Romans 1)

 

[HisServant]

It is in Scripture that He choose us very plainly

Show me the passage that has your name in it...

The "US" that you speak of is defined as believers. Without further defining, the word "US" is meaningless. That is the only evidence that one can make the claim of belonging to the group known as "US"...

 

[HisServant]

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
MB

What criteria defines you as the one Christ is talking to. Is he talking to every "YOU" in creation. Some "YOU's are chosen, some "you's" are not chosen: What makes you a chosen YOU as opposed to a not chosen YOU...

 

[HisServant]

...or what it actually means...because the rejected it (Romans 1)

Before anything can be rejected, it must be first offered...

 

[historyb]

Show me the passage that has your name in it...

The "US" that you speak of is defined as believers. Without further defining, the word "US" is meaningless. That is the only evidence that one can make the claim of belonging to the group known as "US"...

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."

John 10:26-29 "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

Romans 8:29-30 "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

Romans 9:16 "It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."

Ephesians 1:4-6 "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."

Pretty plain, we do not choose. We are dead we can not choose God

 

[HisServant]

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."

John 10:26-29 "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

Romans 8:29-30 "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

Romans 9:16 "It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."

Ephesians 1:4-6 "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."

Pretty plain, we do not choose. We are dead we can not choose God

Neither can the dead make a claim to be an US...

Man does not choose; pretty plain also is the fact that man can reject the gracious gift of salvation.{2 Thess 2} Pretty plain is the fact that the elect are the elect because they accepted the grace of God that leads to salvation. Pretty plain also is the fact that those are the ones predestined, and it is not unto salvation: The predestination is unto conformation into the image of Christ that he may have the glory of being the preeminent one among many brethren...

Good thing that God knows his sheep: Looks like there will be a lot of US'es making a claim on his kingdom... Every man claiming to be US, is not US... But every sanctified believer is assured of a place in heaven...
Predestination unto conformation into the image of Christ, now the bible specifically says that, predestination of US unto salvation, it never says…:BangHead:

May God righly bless you...

 

[historyb]

That is not Scriptural.

[offensive language deleted]

 

[webdog]

Before anything can be rejected, it must be first offered...

My point exactly.

 

[webdog]

That is a lie, nor Scriptural. You keep believing your heresy

Your personal attacks are uncalled for. I have reported 3 of your posts in 5 minutes. Get a handle, man...

 

[historyb]

Okay, they aren't personal attacks. Can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. I am sick of people saying why I believe something, [SNIPPED]. All you Arminins do is attack not think, you get a grip

 

[webdog]

Yet another attack...and another reported post. Been nice knowing you! :wavey:

 

[historyb]

oh boy

 

[Dr. Bob]

Past the 10-page norm so will shut this down.