Predestined for Adoption?

[12strings]

Ephesians 1:4-5 - Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

-It has been argued that Ephesians 1:5 does NOT teach that God predestined certain people to be adopted, but rather SIMPLY predestined what he was going to do with those who chose HIM...that for all who choose him, he has predestined that they will one day be adopted, when our bodies are glorified. Rom. 8:23 has been given as evidence of this view:

Romans 8:23 - And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

-However, just a few verses earlier, we find out that while we wait for adoption, we have also already been adopted, we are already God's children:

Romans 8:15-17 - For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received [past tense] the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are [present tense] children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

-Other verses sustain this idea that we are ALREADY GOD'S CHILDREN NOW!

Ephesians 5:1 - Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

John 1:12 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

-I believe 1 John 3:2 sheds some light here.

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

-It seems that anyone who is a Christian has ALREADY been adopted and made a child of God...but we do not yet experience the fullness of the blessings that come with that. This is the commont "already, not yet" scenario: We have been saved, we shall be saved. We have been adopted, we wait for adoption. We are called "holy ones", we will one day be truly holy.

In conclusion, I believe Eph. 1:5 & Romans 8:23 cannot be used to disprove that God predestines people TO BE adopted, and that this adoption is speaking of salvation, or becoming a child of God.

 

[percho]

Ephesians 1:4-5 - Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

-It has been argued that Ephesians 1:5 does NOT teach that God predestined certain people to be adopted, but rather SIMPLY predestined what he was going to do with those who chose HIM...that for all who choose him, he has predestined that they will one day be adopted, when our bodies are glorified. Rom. 8:23 has been given as evidence of this view:

Romans 8:23 - And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

-However, just a few verses earlier, we find out that while we wait for adoption, we have also already been adopted, we are already God's children:

Romans 8:15-17 - For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received [past tense] the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are [present tense] children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

-Other verses sustain this idea that we are ALREADY GOD'S CHILDREN NOW!

Ephesians 5:1 - Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

John 1:12 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

-I believe 1 John 3:2 sheds some light here.

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

-It seems that anyone who is a Christian has ALREADY been adopted and made a child of God...but we do not yet experience the fullness of the blessings that come with that. This is the commont "already, not yet" scenario: We have been saved, we shall be saved. We have been adopted, we wait for adoption. We are called "holy ones", we will one day be truly holy.

In conclusion, I believe Eph. 1:5 & Romans 8:23 cannot be used to disprove that God predestines people TO BE adopted, and that this adoption is speaking of salvation, or becoming a child of God.

We having the Spirit of God, are we all we shall be. Are we presently born children of God or are we by the Spirit, conceived of God, set apart, growing in the mother of us all Jerusalem above unto being born of God?

The Spirit puts us, "in Christ".

Predestined for Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The Spirit sets us aside/apart for the future birth to take place.

The birth of Jesus by Mary
Rev 12:2,5 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And she brought forth a man child,
The birth of Jesus from the dead.
Psalms 139:13-15 Isa 66:7 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous thy works; and my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

You know the day you were born from your mother.
You do not know the day you will be born from the heavenly Jerusalem, Zion.
Psalms 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them. The body of Christ
Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Compare to Romans 8:19-23

 

[Iconoclast]

Ephesians 1:4-5 - Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

-It has been argued that Ephesians 1:5 does NOT teach that God predestined certain people to be adopted, but rather SIMPLY predestined what he was going to do with those who chose HIM...that for all who choose him, he has predestined that they will one day be adopted, when our bodies are glorified. Rom. 8:23 has been given as evidence of this view:

Romans 8:23 - And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

-However, just a few verses earlier, we find out that while we wait for adoption, we have also already been adopted, we are already God's children:

Romans 8:15-17 - For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received [past tense] the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are [present tense] children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

-Other verses sustain this idea that we are ALREADY GOD'S CHILDREN NOW!

Ephesians 5:1 - Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

John 1:12 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

-I believe 1 John 3:2 sheds some light here.

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

-It seems that anyone who is a Christian has ALREADY been adopted and made a child of God...but we do not yet experience the fullness of the blessings that come with that. This is the commont "already, not yet" scenario: We have been saved, we shall be saved. We have been adopted, we wait for adoption. We are called "holy ones", we will one day be truly holy.

In conclusion, I believe Eph. 1:5 & Romans 8:23 cannot be used to disprove that God predestines people TO BE adopted, and that this adoption is speaking of salvation, or becoming a child of God.

Well yes ,for sure! Only someone who is intentionally trying to undermine consistent biblical teaching would attempt to seperate what God has put together. Jesus is surety for all who are adopted as Sons.....those not adopted have no mediator, no surety, no High priest, no atonement.

 

[percho]

Well yes ,for sure! Only someone who is intentionally trying to undermine consistent biblical teaching would attempt to seperate what God has put together. Jesus is surety for all who are adopted as Sons.....those not adopted have no mediator, no surety, no High priest, no atonement.

I thought it is the Holy Spirit, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; that is the surety.

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

2 Cor. 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

 

[Iconoclast]

I thought it is the Holy Spirit, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; that is the surety.

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

2 Cor. 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Good thinking,and good verse...it is clearly related...the Holy Spirit indwelling us....is like a down payment on the heavenly home ...it is like earnest money put down on a house....

Jesus is surety of the Covenant.....He is the guarentee of our redemption, because his death fulfills the terms of the testament....The resurrection shows the Father accepts the perfect life and death of the Son...as payment for the Covenant people who He dies on behalf of.....This is why definate atonement is a must, not an option...

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

All that come to him ...are all the Father gave,jn 6, jn 17 Hebrews 2:9-16 All who are given ,come,everyone seeing the Son and believing, the whosoever wills
He as Eternal High priest, secures them accomplishing their redemption...

The Spirit is given as a seal.and earnest of our Surety's work...It is guarenteed.....so new birth is the seal of it!

good verses:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[psalms109:31]

We having the Spirit of God, are we all we shall be. Are we presently born children of God or are we by the Spirit, conceived of God, set apart, growing in the mother of us all Jerusalem above unto being born of God?

The Spirit puts us, "in Christ".

Predestined for Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The Spirit sets us aside/apart for the future birth to take place.

The birth of Jesus by Mary
Rev 12:2,5 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And she brought forth a man child,
The birth of Jesus from the dead.
Psalms 139:13-15 Isa 66:7 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous thy works; and my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

You know the day you were born from your mother.
You do not know the day you will be born from the heavenly Jerusalem, Zion.
Psalms 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them. The body of Christ
Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Compare to Romans 8:19-23

That is wonderfully put together :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[psalms109:31]

Since I will not desire to change, alter, change a meaning, mold, or cut off a branch of the forest of scripture. God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

I believe in the elect,remnant, the few, the branches like the prophets, the disciples, Paul. The angels of Christ His messengers. The workers in the field to bring in the harvest. Chosen for His purpose that God will use and has used to bring in the sands of the sea shore saved. I believe in the elect Jews, cut out not because they were not chosen but because of unbelief and not able to enter into Christ. I believe in people like Saul who was cut out for unbelief and was grafted back in because he did not continue in his unbelief. I believe in the Gentiles who is not in Him from the beginning those dogs like me who God included with His elect when they heard the Gospel of their salvation having believe. Then treated as a one of them.

Jesus is the one chosen before the foundation of the world and those who are in Him.

I am predestined in Him for there is no life in me, but in Christ my salvation

 

[percho]

Since I will not desire to change, alter, change a meaning, mold, or cut off a branch of the forest of scripture. God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

I believe in the elect,remnant, the few, the branches like the prophets, the disciples, Paul. The angels of Christ His messengers. The workers in the field to bring in the harvest. Chosen for His purpose that God will use and has used to bring in the sands of the sea shore saved. I believe in the elect Jews, cut out not because they were not chosen but because of unbelief and not able to enter into Christ. I believe in people like Saul who was cut out for unbelief and was grafted back in because he did not continue in his unbelief. I believe in the Gentiles who is not in Him from the beginning those dogs like me who God included with His elect when they heard the Gospel of their salvation having believe. Then treated as a one of them.

Jesus is the one chosen before the foundation of the world and those who are in Him.

I am predestined in Him for there is no life in me, but in Christ my salvation

Amen brother and we with patience do wait for it.

But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

 

[Iconoclast]

That is wonderfully put together :thumbsup:

Looks like you are doing some good study:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

the promises to Zion and Jerusalem belong to us!

 

[Skandelon]

-However, just a few verses earlier, we find out that while we wait for adoption, we have also already been adopted, we are already God's children:

Adoption is a process. We really don't have the perfect tense in our language to connote the idea of past, present and future all in one, but that is the picture of a believers adoption. It is not complete until the redemption of our bodies, as the verse you referenced teaches. (Rm 8:23)

Either way, adoption clearly follows faith, so unless you have a verse that teaches certain unbelievers are predestined to become believers, then the facts of the matter are the same. Whosoever believes will be adopted.

-Other verses sustain this idea that we are ALREADY GOD'S CHILDREN NOW!

Who denies this? Hopefully the explanation above clarifies this matter.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

But.... if you do indeed believe that the Calvinists are correct that there is indeed individual election and predestination to salvation (adoption). and yet man still retains libertarian free will and that the inevitable logical outcome of Calvinism is determinism...there is always:

http://www.edstetzer.com/Molinism- How to be a consistent infralapsarian.pdf