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Predestined to Damnation?
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
- Start date
Dear HP . This affords a great opportunity to demonstrate that the renderings of the KJV are not a whit less Calvinistic . Observe the following .
John 17:12 . Would you prefer " the sons of perdition " ? It means the one destined for destruction .
Romans 9:22
Would you prefer " vessels of wrath fitted to destruction " ?
Romans 11:7 Would you prefer " the rest were blinded " instead ?
2 Corinthians 11:15 Would you rather have it ... "whose end shall be according to their works " ?
Philippians 1:28 Would your preference be ..." an evident token of their perdition " ?
2 Thessalonians 2:3 I guess you like the phraselogy of " the son of perdition " .
1 Peter 2:8 Don't tell me . Instead of " destined for destruction as the HCSB has it , you much prefer ..." whereunto also they were appointed ."
2 Peter 2:3 ... whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not , and their damnation slumbereth not . ( KJV )
2 Peter 2:12 ... and shall utterly perish in their own corruption . ( KJV )
2 Peter 3:7 ... against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men . ( KJV )
Jude 4 ... who were before of old ordained to this condemnation . ( KJV )
The verdict is in -- the KJV does not help your case -- but it does buttress mine .
John 17:12 . Would you prefer " the sons of perdition " ? It means the one destined for destruction .
Romans 9:22
Would you prefer " vessels of wrath fitted to destruction " ?
Romans 11:7 Would you prefer " the rest were blinded " instead ?
2 Corinthians 11:15 Would you rather have it ... "whose end shall be according to their works " ?
Philippians 1:28 Would your preference be ..." an evident token of their perdition " ?
2 Thessalonians 2:3 I guess you like the phraselogy of " the son of perdition " .
1 Peter 2:8 Don't tell me . Instead of " destined for destruction as the HCSB has it , you much prefer ..." whereunto also they were appointed ."
2 Peter 2:3 ... whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not , and their damnation slumbereth not . ( KJV )
2 Peter 2:12 ... and shall utterly perish in their own corruption . ( KJV )
2 Peter 3:7 ... against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men . ( KJV )
Jude 4 ... who were before of old ordained to this condemnation . ( KJV )
The verdict is in -- the KJV does not help your case -- but it does buttress mine .
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BB, where in Scripture does it say that the Lord ever foreknows any reprobate ? God's foreknowledge is with respect to the elect only . Obviously the omnipotent God knows all . The Lord determined from eternity that Esau would not be among His elect . The performance of the wicked Esau and the evil , conniving Jacob were all under His direction before they ever existed . God's purpose according to election would stand . But God set His love on Jacob only , not his twin brother . That setting of His eternal love upon those He has chosen is His foreknowlege .
Brother Bob
New Member
Oh, He is not an "all knowing God"? I bet He gets a lot of surprises, especially when the Calvinist talk about Calvinists more than Christians.
Brother Bob
New Member
Oh, He is not an "all knowing God"? I bet He gets a lot of surprises, especially when the Calvinist talk about Calvinists more than Christians.
I guess He didn't know Judas was going to betray the Lord either, that must of been quite a shock!
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God is never surprised as the Process Theologians would have some to believe . God is all-knowing . It is down-right amazing how BB can twist and turn things so ineptly .
I thought I made it perfectly clear about Judas . But for those slow of heart to believe what the Scriptures actually state --- please review the following .
John 17:12 ... I guarded them and not one of them is lost , except the son of destruction so that the Scripture may be fulfilled .
Luke 22:22 __ ... woe to that man by whom He is betrayed . [ see also Matt. 26:24 for more of the same ] .
Take a gander at John 13 , verses 21-30 . Look especially at verse 27 : ... Therefore Jesus told him , " What you're doing , do quickly . "
[ All references are from the HCSB ]
I thought I made it perfectly clear about Judas . But for those slow of heart to believe what the Scriptures actually state --- please review the following .
John 17:12 ... I guarded them and not one of them is lost , except the son of destruction so that the Scripture may be fulfilled .
Luke 22:22 __ ... woe to that man by whom He is betrayed . [ see also Matt. 26:24 for more of the same ] .
Take a gander at John 13 , verses 21-30 . Look especially at verse 27 : ... Therefore Jesus told him , " What you're doing , do quickly . "
[ All references are from the HCSB ]
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Brother Bob
New Member
Again, I will post:
So because he foreknows does not mean He causes it.
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So because he foreknows does not mean He causes it.
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Brother Bob
New Member
I think he was obeying his mother anyway wasn't he?
tragic_pizza
New Member
Here we go on the "double predestination" bandwagon...
As William Temple once said; "The only thing I can contribute to my redemption is the sin from which I need to be redeemed."
Reformed theology embraces no doctrine of a presestination to damnation.
As William Temple once said; "The only thing I can contribute to my redemption is the sin from which I need to be redeemed."
Reformed theology embraces no doctrine of a presestination to damnation.
Brother Bob said:
Oh sure he was obeying his righteous, sinless MOTHER! Okay Pelagius you win. Jacob was GOOD and Esau was BAD. God choose Jacob because he was RIGHTEOUSS. Sheesh, there's not bottom to the barrell of doctrinal depravity for you guys, is there?
webdog said:
You guys are messin wid me, right? Is this gonna cost me my lunch money?
Let's see - God chose Jacob over Esau because of the individual actions of the individuals, but none of it has anything to do with individuals.
Who's on first? I must have been a baaaad boy!
Brother Bob
New Member
Ok now J. D. hand over the lunch money now!
So which NATION is he speaking of here: "22 What if God, willing to shew his]wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called...webdog said:
Which nation is "us"? I sure hope it's the good ole USofA, cause I sure want to be a vessel of glory, don't you?
And which nation is this talking about: "v27 ...a remnant shall be saved"
Which NATION is the remnant, that I may go and become a citizen? I want to be saved, don't you?
And what nation is this "30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness". So all gentile nations are saved, right?
In Chapter 11 we read that all Israel shall be saved, and here we read that the gentiles shall be saved, so apparently, since it's obvious that this passage is dealing with NATIONS and not INDIVIDUALS, EVERYONE will be saved.
Oh, I forgot, no quoting scripture out of context. Sorry.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I can only say that I am pleased as punch to see that my friend and brother, Brother Bob, has been christened as part of this fine order as well. Congratulations Brother Bob! Wear it as a badge of honor!!:thumbs: :thumbs:
1 Pet.2:9 "But all of you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, an exclusive people; that all of
you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God (cf.Rom.9:25,6): which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy". This opposed to those trusting in birth into a physical nation (v.3-8). You can see this again here: Matt.21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof".