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Preferring One Another.
- Thread starter OldRegular
- Start date
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
And you are from South Carolina - the State that started the bloodiest war in U.S. history. So there!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]And I fired the first shot. Traveled all the way from Virginia to do it.
Terry_Herrington
New Member
I have been to both Arkansas and South Carolina, I'll take Arkansas any day. It's almost as good as Texas.
this poll does not work.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
</font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]Old Regular,
The above question is for you.
Joseph Botwinick
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Not believing in the inerrancy does not make one a heretic it just makes him wrong, perhaps stupid. Not believing in Jesus Christ dwelt all the fulness of the Goidhead in bodily [human] form or the Virgin Birth would make someone a heretic. There are probably others also.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Ok. Inerrancy...no big deal. Universalism...no big deal. The deity and virgin birth...big deal. Is that your line of thinking? The only problem with your line of thinking is that without inerrancy being a big deal, neither is anything Scripture says about the deity of Jesus and the Virgin Birth. Don't believe me? Just go look up Spong on Wikipedia and see where his errant scripture heresy leads.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph Botwinick
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You misinterpret what I said, I hope not deliberately.
I said: Not believing in the inerrancy does not make one a heretic it just makes him wrong, perhaps stupid. I did not say it was no big deal. I did not say it would not lead to heretical beliefs.
I made no mention of universalism. If you think: "Universalism...no big deal.", you are entitled to your erroneous beliefs just as Spong is. However, I would call that belief heretical since Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ is the only means of Salvation. Hopefully that doesn't apply to you.
As far as Wikipedia do you consider it inerrant?
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
The mention to universalism was in relation to Bush's heretical belief that all roads lead to the same God.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph Botwinick
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
I can't answer your poll because George Bush has demonstrated by claiming that Christians and Moslems worship the same god and that each will find their own way to heaven that he is not a born again Christian.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The fact that George Bush is wrong on this occasion does not mean he is not born again. It is God the Holy Spirit who regenerates, not you or me.
hillclimber
New Member
Dispensationalism says no such thing OldRegular. The Bible tells us man/Israel failed to recognize it's Messiah and sent Him to the Cross instead of the Throne.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Dispensationalism says no such thing OldRegular. The Bible tells us man/Israel failed to recognize it's Messiah and sent Him to the Cross instead of the Throne. </font>[/QUOTE]You are incorrect. Herman Hoyt, a dispensationalist, in The Millennium, Four Viewpoints, by Clouse, page 85 states:
"The Gospels always associate the kingdom declared by Christ with that kingdom of the Old Testament. ...... In spite of the clear teaching of Christ, the King and His kingdom were rejected. .... The offer of the kingdom was genuine, ...."
On page 86 Hoyt states: "Realizing that the rejection of Himself and His Kingdom was inevitable, Christ saught to prepare His own apostles for this event."
And now a llittle Scripture to show that the Jews did recognize Jesus as the Messiah:
Matthew 21:33-45
33. Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34. And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37. But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40. When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41. They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43. Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
hillclimber
New Member
All that is true but Jesus nowhere talks of the age of grace that we find ourselves in.
Jesus was here to establish His Messianic Kingdom, and Israel REJECTED Him. That is what happened.
Christ knew he was heading for the Cross, and did prepare the apostles for it, but I fail to see what point you're making.
God intercepted Paul on the way to Damascus, and showed him these things he must do. His charge was to preach a new gospel to the world, with no respect for race, ethnicity, etc. This new gospel was God's plan of Grace for all who would accept it, not just Israel, as was before this point in time. Isn't it amazing that God would choose His greatest persecutor on earth?
Peter even says Pauls message was hard to understand, in IIPet 3 near the end, but ignorant and unstable people distort his truth and consequently other scriptures, to their own destruction. That's where most churches are today, struggling with scripture, refusing to rightly divide, staying ignorant.
Jesus was here to establish His Messianic Kingdom, and Israel REJECTED Him. That is what happened.
Christ knew he was heading for the Cross, and did prepare the apostles for it, but I fail to see what point you're making.
God intercepted Paul on the way to Damascus, and showed him these things he must do. His charge was to preach a new gospel to the world, with no respect for race, ethnicity, etc. This new gospel was God's plan of Grace for all who would accept it, not just Israel, as was before this point in time. Isn't it amazing that God would choose His greatest persecutor on earth?
Peter even says Pauls message was hard to understand, in IIPet 3 near the end, but ignorant and unstable people distort his truth and consequently other scriptures, to their own destruction. That's where most churches are today, struggling with scripture, refusing to rightly divide, staying ignorant.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Dispensationalism says no such thing OldRegular. The Bible tells us man/Israel failed to recognize it's Messiah and sent Him to the Cross instead of the Throne. </font>[/QUOTE]
Anyone see any discrepancy in the responses of hillclimber?
I believe I should also respond to hillclimbers remark: "Jesus nowhere talks of the age of grace."
What is Jesus Christ talking about in John 3:16, in fact the entire Gospel of John? Grace!
hillclimber
New Member
Jesus never spoke of this age we are in. John 3:16 is of course a great gift of grace for mankind, but it was spoken to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The entire gospel of John was for Israel, when the gentiles were afar off. He was speaking to a people that were to be a part of the great prophecied Messianic Kingdom. But they did not see and they rejected and crusified Him.
And yes Jesus spoke of grace, as he was full of it. But he did not speak of the age to come after the Cross. The Lord gave that duty to Saul/Paul, and the world was finally rid of the bonds of the Law, and it is now by grace you are saved, not of works, lest any man boast. Eph 2:8 Rom 6:14
Who would want to be under the law anyway? Not me.
And yes Jesus spoke of grace, as he was full of it. But he did not speak of the age to come after the Cross. The Lord gave that duty to Saul/Paul, and the world was finally rid of the bonds of the Law, and it is now by grace you are saved, not of works, lest any man boast. Eph 2:8 Rom 6:14
Who would want to be under the law anyway? Not me.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
The fact that George Bush is wrong on this occasion does not mean he is not born again. It is God the Holy Spirit who regenerates, not you or me. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you. Then why are you proclaiming so confidently that he is a Christian?
I'm willing to leave it up to the Lord.