Pregnant Canadian Mom with her kids, Arrested, guess why

[Use of Time]

Yeah, she is entitled safe handling and respect from the Police with her soon to be born and those already born.

Well that’s another story in which I completely agree.

 

[Use of Time]

And this is why you are on my block list, you and every other liberal on this board. You are in good company, enjoy.

Man. Am I really on your block list? People really cannot handle a counterpoint without getting their feelings hurt. You are in the majority on this board. Geez, you need 100% concurrence with what you post to be happy?

 

[canadyjd]

……
The unvaccinated want to hold the world hostage, makes us bow to their beliefs…...

Whenever someone assigns motives to those who disagree with them, especially when these motives are clearly contrary to what the opposition has stated, you have moved away from intellectually honest debate and into the world of political propaganda.

Quite frankly, it hurts your credibility.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Whenever someone assigns motives to those who disagree with them, especially when these motives are clearly contrary to what the opposition has stated, you have moved away from intellectually honest debate and into the world of political propaganda.

Quite frankly, it hurts your credibility.

peace to you

I'm not assigning a motive. That is just my opinion.

I should have said the unvaccinated are holding the world hostage. I doubt that is their motive. Thanks for the correction.

I'm sure some have legitimate health concerns, others believe conspiracies, some do not take any medical treatment due to religious objections.

It is the same with the measles debate.

But the bottom line is we have an effective vaccine, and one that is statistically safe. We are past the wondering if it will work stage.

It is simply time to move on. It is apparent there will always be conspiracy theorists and "flat earthers" (evidenced by the fact we have actual flat earthers). We should not force vaccinations but at the same time we need to get on with life.

Requiring vaccinations for large venues, indoor malls, air travel, etc. is logical. It allows the nation to move forward without mandating vaccines on the general population.

 

[canadyjd]

I'm not assigning a motive. That is just my opinion.

I'm sure some have legitimate health concerns, others believe conspiracies, some do not take any medical treatment due to religious objections.

But the bottom line is we have an effective vaccine, and one that is statistically safe. We are past the wondering if it will work stage.

It is simply time to move on….. We should not force vaccinations but at the same time we need to get on with life.

Requiring vaccinations for large venues, indoor malls, air travel, etc. is logical. It allows the nation to move forward without mandating vaccines on the general population.

I can agree with all of that, except large outdoor venues. College football has been filling stadiums, no masks, with no significant outbreaks.

Not only should we not force people to get the vaccine, we shouldn’t threaten, malign, coerce or punish those that don’t want the vaccine.

Every debate should distinguish the unvaxed between those who never had the virus and those recovered from the virus.

Those who have recovered, imo, should be considered in the vaccinated group and not be subject to passports or masks.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

I can agree with all of that, except large outdoor venues. College football has been filling stadiums, no masks, with no significant outbreaks.

Not only should we not force people to get the vaccine, we shouldn’t threaten, malign, coerce or punish those that don’t want the vaccine.

Every debate should distinguish the unvaxed between those who never had the virus and those recovered from the virus.

Those who have recovered, imo, should be considered in the vaccinated group and not be subject to passports or masks.

peace to you

Yes, I could see outdoor events.

I am not sure about covid survivers. Studies have shown they are less protected, but that isn't the issue. Studies have shown vaccinated people are less likely to spread covid. I would think having covid would help as well, but I don't know. Have you read any Studies on the issue?

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, I could see outdoor events.

I am not sure about covid survivers. Studies have shown they are less protected, but that isn't the issue. Studies have shown vaccinated people are less likely to spread covid. I would think having covid would help as well, but I don't know. Have you read any Studies on the issue?

A couple. Studies out of Israel suggests the recovered from covid folks have 27 times the immunity of the vaxed. Additionally, the recovered seem to have natural antibodies that stay in the system far longer than what is produced by the vaccine. That makes sense. We are vaxed once for measles and other viruses. This vaccine is requiring boasters just months after a two shot regiment. For some reason, it doesn’t appear to offer long term protection, at least for some people.

I saw a report that people who recovered from the deadly flu of 1917-1918 still had antibodies well into their 90’s.

The one study I saw concerning unvaxed recovered folks being “less protected”, wasn’t really that they were less protected. The study showed unvaxed recovered had a slightly higher rate of hospitalization, serious complications than vaxed never exposed.

Both groups had very low serious complications and could probably be attributed to pre-existing conditions in both cases.

Like you said, no vaccine is 100% and recovered folks don’t have 100% immunity either.

Which is why I chose the vac even though I’m recovered. A slightly better chance is worth it for me and my situation.

Peace to you

 

[JonC]

A couple. Studies out of Israel suggests the recovered from covid folks have 27 times the immunity of the vaxed. Additionally, the recovered seem to have natural antibodies that stay in the system far longer than what is produced by the vaccine. That makes sense. We are vaxed once for measles and other viruses. This vaccine is requiring boasters just months after a two shot regiment. For some reason, it doesn’t appear to offer long term protection, at least for some people.

I saw a report that people who recovered from the deadly flu of 1917-1918 still had antibodies well into their 90’s.

The one study I saw concerning unvaxed recovered folks being “less protected”, wasn’t really that they were less protected. The study showed unvaxed recovered had a slightly higher rate of hospitalization, serious complications than vaxed never exposed.

Both groups had very low serious complications and could probably be attributed to pre-existing conditions in both cases.

Like you said, no vaccine is 100% and recovered folks don’t have 100% immunity either.

Which is why I chose the vac even though I’m recovered. A slightly better chance is worth it for me and my situation.

Peace to you

I have seen a study indicating covid survivors have longer lasting antibodies (if the infection was severe enough) but decreased t-cells (while the vaccine resulted in increased t-cells).

I would think this would put the covid survivors at risk but would also prevent them from readily spreading covid.

I am not sure, though, about what is measured when they say more severe cases have increased antibodies (I don't know how this can be determined on an individual basis). We also know that people have had covid multiple times.

This is why I would prefer a vaccine passport for vaccines (and boosters) only. These can be, at least to an extent, measured.

 

[canadyjd]

I have seen a study indicating covid survivors have longer lasting antibodies (if the infection was severe enough) but decreased t-cells (while the vaccine resulted in increased t-cells).

I would think this would put the covid survivors at risk but would also prevent them from readily spreading covid.

I am not sure, though, about what is measured when they say more severe cases have increased antibodies (I don't know how this can be determined on an individual basis). We also know that people have had covid multiple times.

This is why I would prefer a vaccine passport for vaccines (and boosters) only. These can be, at least to an extent, measured.

My understanding of infections like this (I’m no expert) is that t-cells multiply to fight infection. Once infection is removed, t-cells naturally decrease, but the body knows how to fight the virus and t-cells will multiply rapidly if exposed again.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

My understanding of infections like this (I’m no expert) is that t-cells multiply to fight infection. Once infection is removed, t-cells naturally decrease, but the body knows how to fight the virus and t-cells will multiply rapidly if exposed again.

peace to you

I was wondering about initial resistance. The study I posted...er....somewhere (the Israeli study) looked at natural immunity vs vaccine. They found with infection the antibodies varied with the severity of infection and age of survivor. But after 8 months natural infection had more antibodies (although with both vacvinated and surviving covid patents the antibodies decreased over time).

The concern was that covid infection, while increasing antibodies, was detrimental to t-cells. On the other hand the vaccine provided less antibodies but greatly increased t-cells.

Their conclusion was this increase in t-cells explained why some vaccinated people with minimal antibodies faired better than covid survivers who still had increased antibodies.

I know the studies demonstrate covid survivers still should be vaccinated for their health....but I do not know about preventing spread (I don't know if a previous infection has the same benefit as the vaccine as far as guarding against actual infection).

I don't worry about it either way. I'm vaccinated and will get the booster when available (I had the Moderna vaccine, which studies show maintains effectiveness longer....I take it because it has 3x's the mRNA vaccine than Pfizer...so I don't know when boosters will be here).

 

[JonC]

This issue (in the OP) could have been easily avoided.

We require proof of immunizations for school. I had to get shot records for my son to go to college. He had to get a few shots.

The business should have simply posted that it requires proof of vaccination. Tge woman would have known prior to entry.

This is where vaccine passports come in handy. We've had them for a decade (not with covud but as a part of several travel apps).

 

[Salty]

I still have the Shot Record that the US Army gave me when I first joined

 

[Reynolds]

So we have a cop that likes to drink - and he stops someone who just blew .08. but he thinks its not that bad and lets them go. Face it, how could he sleep at night if he arrested that couple. But you protest he broke the law- yes he did -.....


Yes, that mom broke the law - but 1) since she did not have proof - she simply should have left.
and 2) get the law changed.

Don't know about Canada. Here in the USA, I was sworn to Uphold The Constitution of The United States and The Constitution of Georgia.
I don't think mask and Vax enforcement is a Constitutionally legal action. Most Sheriff's agree with my view on that because they won't enforce either. Many have said they will not enforce a criminal trespass complaint due to a mask or a vax. They are perfectly in their legal rights to do that because our laws only require peace officer to make an arrest for felonies committed in presence and acts of family violence.

Y'all are way too willing to sacrifice liberty for perceived safety.

 

[Salty]

...Y'all are way too willing to sacrifice liberty for perceived safety.

A business owner should have the right to determine rules for entry into his establisment. If a prospective does not play by the rules - then they are trespassing and subject to arrest.

 

[Reynolds]

A business owner should have the right to determine rules for entry into his establisment. If a prospective does not play by the rules - then they are trespassing and subject to arrest.

So, I should be able to say a Muslim can't come into my business?

 

[canadyjd]

This issue (in the OP) could have been easily avoided.

We require proof of immunizations for school. I had to get shot records for my son to go to college. He had to get a few shots.

The business should have simply posted that it requires proof of vaccination. Tge woman would have known prior to entry.

This is where vaccine passports come in handy. We've had them for a decade (not with covud but as a part of several travel apps).

How many businesses have you gone into that require you to show your school shot records? Your military shot records?

peace to you

 

[JonC]

How many businesses have you gone into that require you to show your school shot records? Your military shot records?

peace to you

Not relevant. This is the first pandemic I have had the fortune to attend.

I am saying requiring proof of vaccine to attend large venues is more like requiring shot records for school than it is Nazi Germany looking for Jews. @Reformed use of Nazi Germany is invalid.

 

[canadyjd]

Not relevant. This is the first pandemic I have had the fortune to attend.

I am saying requiring proof of vaccine to attend large venues is more like requiring shot records for school than it is Nazi Germany looking for Jews. @Reformed use of Nazi Germany is invalid.

For the record, I’ve never made the comparison to Nazi’s.

The debate is taking a turn into the absurd.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Reynolds]

Not relevant. This is the first pandemic I have had the fortune to attend.

I am saying requiring proof of vaccine to attend large venues is more like requiring shot records for school than it is Nazi Germany looking for Jews. @Reformed use of Nazi Germany is invalid.

Nazi Germany and Communist U S.S.R. are all valid comparisons.bGermany is especially valid because aHitker came to power in a manner that mirrored what we are seeing here.

Let me ask you this. Large venues and public Gatherings. Is it OK with you to require John Macarthurs congregation to get vaxed to attend Church? They are a large gathering. Very large.
You any less likely to catch Covid at Joel Osteen Church than you are at a concert?
What number is large?
What number is small?
Covid any more or less contagious at private gatherings than public?

 

[Salty]

So, I should be able to say a Muslim can't come into my business?

IMHO - that is correct
Now, as a businessman - I only discriminate on the color of green!
as long as you have green cash - you are welcomed.