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Present your BEST argument for church tithing
- Thread starter Soulman
- Start date
please explain me this verses:
Gen 14:19 And he blessed1288 him, and said,559 Blessed1288 be Abram87 of the most high5945 God,410 possessor7069 of heaven8064 and earth:776
Gen 14:20 And blessed1288 be the most high5945 God,410 which834 hath delivered4042 thine enemies6862 into thy hand.3027 And he gave5414 him tithes4643 of all.4480, 3605
(Sorry for the Strong Codes)
This ocurred before the existence of Israel.
This ocurred before the Law (Moses Law).
Why this Abraham sample does not apply to us?
(Sorry for my english)
Gen 14:19 And he blessed1288 him, and said,559 Blessed1288 be Abram87 of the most high5945 God,410 possessor7069 of heaven8064 and earth:776
Gen 14:20 And blessed1288 be the most high5945 God,410 which834 hath delivered4042 thine enemies6862 into thy hand.3027 And he gave5414 him tithes4643 of all.4480, 3605
(Sorry for the Strong Codes)
This ocurred before the existence of Israel.
This ocurred before the Law (Moses Law).
Why this Abraham sample does not apply to us?
(Sorry for my english)
Abraham was also a polygamist before the existance of Israel and before the law,, should we follow that example also?
"The just shall live by faith". This is the general rule of life for the child of God.
If your faith is big enough to tithe (or more), by all means tithe.
HankD
Posted by Joman: Gen.14:19-20 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Joman, Abram had just returned from battle. He tithed to Melchizedek from the spoils of the battle. He did not tithe of his own money or goods. In fact Abram gave the rest to the king of Sodom and kept nothing for himself. There is no record that Abraham ever tithed again.
Also if you look at the old testament doctrine of tithing it is very different to how it is being taught in churches today. Tithing was usually done with food and livestock, not money.
Tithing was for the temple to support the priests. It was never transferred to the church.
Jesus set up giving in the New Testament. Churches that teach tithing in this dispensation are doing so outside the will of God. The bible never gave any man the right to take 10% of a mans wages.
They will tell you you are robbing God if you don't tithe, twisting the scriptures out of context.
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
He was speaking to the Levitical priests of the temple. NOT the Church.
Pastors will tell you to tithe no matter what your financial situation is. Trust God to bless. This statement has no basis in scripture and was invented by the church to get you to tithe.
Tithing as taught today never was a biblical concept or principle and definately not new testament.
20And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Joman, Abram had just returned from battle. He tithed to Melchizedek from the spoils of the battle. He did not tithe of his own money or goods. In fact Abram gave the rest to the king of Sodom and kept nothing for himself. There is no record that Abraham ever tithed again.
Also if you look at the old testament doctrine of tithing it is very different to how it is being taught in churches today. Tithing was usually done with food and livestock, not money.
Tithing was for the temple to support the priests. It was never transferred to the church.
Jesus set up giving in the New Testament. Churches that teach tithing in this dispensation are doing so outside the will of God. The bible never gave any man the right to take 10% of a mans wages.
They will tell you you are robbing God if you don't tithe, twisting the scriptures out of context.
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
He was speaking to the Levitical priests of the temple. NOT the Church.
Pastors will tell you to tithe no matter what your financial situation is. Trust God to bless. This statement has no basis in scripture and was invented by the church to get you to tithe.
Tithing as taught today never was a biblical concept or principle and definately not new testament.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Amen! Tithing to the Church was invented by the Roman Catholic Church to pay its bills. Those who believe that God wants them to tithe should give their tithe to a needy Jewish synagogue
But you are the one who said Abraham tithed before the Law came into existance and made a point of that fact.
Isn't the Law the knowledge of sin?
You are the one giving what Abraham did a name and calling it "adultery".
Where in the Scripture does it say that Abraham committed "adultery"?
And OBTW, even when the Law eventually came, a man was permitted more than one wife.
So I repeat: Abraham had multiple wives before the law came into existance (which was later permitted by the Law). So should we follow the example of Abraham in this matter as well?
Also to repeat: Tithing in the NT, like any of the post-salvation works, is by faith not by constraint.
HankD
Posted by HankD: So I repeat: Abraham had multiple wives before the law came into existance (which was later permitted by the Law). So should we follow the example of Abraham in this matter as well?
I will repeat as well: Abram had just returned from battle. He tithed to Melchizedek from the spoils of the battle. He did not tithe of his own money or goods. In fact Abram gave the rest to the king of Sodom and kept nothing for himself. There is no record that Abraham ever tithed again.
Posted by HankD: Also to repeat: Tithing in the NT, like any of the post-salvation works, is by faith not by constraint.
Not so! Tithing isn't even a new testament concept. Churches practising tithing are legitimately in error or willfully strong arming their congregations.
It is bewildering to me that our church leaders preach faith as the answer to everything and they are not willing to put their faith into the way Jesus set up giving.
I will repeat as well: Abram had just returned from battle. He tithed to Melchizedek from the spoils of the battle. He did not tithe of his own money or goods. In fact Abram gave the rest to the king of Sodom and kept nothing for himself. There is no record that Abraham ever tithed again.
Posted by HankD: Also to repeat: Tithing in the NT, like any of the post-salvation works, is by faith not by constraint.
Not so! Tithing isn't even a new testament concept. Churches practising tithing are legitimately in error or willfully strong arming their congregations.
It is bewildering to me that our church leaders preach faith as the answer to everything and they are not willing to put their faith into the way Jesus set up giving.
OK, my wording was wrong. It's a personal decision, it shouldn't be a local church enforced practice.
If anyone wants to tithe, there is nothing I see in the NT to forbid tithing except if it is not done in faith.
The just shall live by faith.
...whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
I am free to give whatever I purpose in my own heart, if I pupose a tithe in faith it's allowed, if not a tithe it's still allowed.
2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
HankD
Posted by HankD: If anyone wants to tithe, there is nothing I see in the NT to forbid tithing except if it is not done in faith.
I know it is a play on words but tithing is neither advocated nor forbidden as there is no such thing in the new testament.
Quoted by HankD: I am free to give whatever I purpose in my own heart, if I pupose a tithe in faith it's allowed, if not a tithe it's still allowed.
Giving is allowed. Tithing is irrelavent.
Quoted by HankD: 2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Thats what the bible says. It must be true!
I know it is a play on words but tithing is neither advocated nor forbidden as there is no such thing in the new testament.
Quoted by HankD: I am free to give whatever I purpose in my own heart, if I pupose a tithe in faith it's allowed, if not a tithe it's still allowed.
Giving is allowed. Tithing is irrelavent.
Quoted by HankD: 2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Thats what the bible says. It must be true!
Actually the word "tithe" in one form or another is found 6 times in the NT. But even if it were not there at all, it doesn't prove a whole lot, the terms , "missions", "mission board" or "missionary" cannot be found in the NT.
That's what I've been saying all along.
I'm sorry I took so long in answering, I've been on vacation visiting my triplet grandkids.
HankD
I can't believe what I have been reading!
Jesus condemned the Pharisees in Matthew 23:24 and said "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you PAY TITHE of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE."!
Jesus condemned the Pharisees in Matthew 23:24 and said "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you PAY TITHE of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE."!
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Remember WEBDOG...Jesus was addressing "law-keeping" JEWS prior to His death,burial and resurrection....and prior to the establishment of the New Testament church age.He was NOT addressing born again NEW TESTAMENT "Christians".You just can't apply that passage to the CHURCH...it doesn't FIT.
Greg Sr.
Greg Sr.
No, giving is commanded, but your erroneous doctrine pretty much sums up the attitudes in threads where folks gripe about tithing. You're just trying to say that NOT giving is good and righteous and holy and on an even par with giving.
God so loved that He gave...
He who loves little, gives little. He who loves much, gives much. I believe the widow's mites have already been mentioned.
If you are not giving, you are not a Christian.
I was responding to your post in which you said...
OK, but you did not make any other qualification other than "as there is no such thing in the new testament", so neither did I.
In fact you made it seem (at least to me)) as if "tithing" per se, were an unknown or a taboo item in the NT. Therefore since it appeared to me (and perhaps I am wrong) that you made it that kind of an issue, I will restate my statement.
"tithe" as a principle of giving under the law is mentioned 6 times in the NT.
Please read my posts and you will see that I agree with you and will even add this: In the strictest sense of the concept, "tithing" was a theocratic federal income tax imposed upon the Hebrew landowners (not the wage earner). The tithe was used for the national defense and welfare, income for the leaders of the theocracy (levites), help for the widow, stranger, etc...
By that concept (national defense and welfare), most Americans pay at least a "tithe" to the US government.
My point RE:tithing under grace:
Go ahead if it is by faith because "the just shall live by faith".
If one is fearful about legalism then make it 9% or 11%. Actually any % or amount as long as it is by faith, as one purposes in their heart (not imposed upon you) and cheerfully given.
HankD