Present your BEST argument for church tithing

[Blood Bought 7]

Mal 3:14
Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?
Mal 3:15
And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.

To comment on what some are saying, I believe that it is not the job of one christian to judge another based on what he is giving, but brothers and sisters we do need to judge ourselves and at least consider what our pastors are saying. Those of you who do not see the need to tithe because "it's not in the new testimant" I beg you to read Malachi 3... which is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus. I've included two verses to think on concerning where our hearts lie. I'll confess I'm not a faithful Tither, but that is not something I am proud of and I'm trying to break this old slothful habbit.

 

[FundamentalDan]

Matthew 23:22-24 (King James Version)

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

--------------

Christ said that you ought to tithe. That will be good enough for me.

 

[Alcott]

Those of you who do not see the need to tithe because "it's not in the new testimant" I beg you to read Malachi 3

Being brief and concise, exactly what will be the result of reading and carrying out what is said in Malachi 3?

 

[Bluefalcon]

Originally posted by Alcott:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Those of you who do not see the need to tithe because "it's not in the new testimant" I beg you to read Malachi 3

Being brief and concise, exactly what will be the result of reading and carrying out what is said in Malachi 3? </font>[/QUOTE]Uh, the absense of the charge that we are robbing God?

Cheers, Bluefalcon

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Note to Dan and Alcott.....CONTEXT...remember CONTEXT....In Matt.23 Jesus had an audience...they were LAW-KEEPING JEWS still under the LAW before His death,burial,and resurrection.In Malachi the prophet Malachi had an audience as well.He also was addressing LAW-KEEPING JEWS before the birth,life,death,burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.The CONTEXT shows BOTH times that the CHURCH was NOT being addressed...only the Jews and the Nation of Israel.That pesky old context just doesn't include the CHURCH under GRACE nor does it support putting New Testament Christians back under the ordinances of the Old Testament LAW.Sorry guys...it just doesn't fit.Like I've said in the past....GIVE...do it cheerfully...and do it with full realization that God OWNS IT ALL.Do the best you can to support the work of God with a pure heart whether it's 2% or 90%.It's ALL HIS...He just calls New Testament Christians to be wise STEWARDS....not law-keeping Jews.God Bless all'a'ya'll....the order of the day is LIBERTY...wherewith Christ has made us FREE.

Greg Sr.

 

[Soulman]

Amen Greg!

 

[elijah_lives]

Studying Schaff's "History of the Christian Church, Vol 2" last night, I coincidentally ran into possibly the earliest post-Biblical account of church worship. It was written by Justin Martyr (Flavius Justinus of Samaria) in his Apology (I. c65-67), and may be of historical interest to all because he described giving at the tail end.

"On Sunday a meeting of all, who live in the cities and villages, is held, and a section from the Memoirs of the Apostles (the Gospels) and the writings of the Prophets (the Old Testament) is read, as long as time permits. When the reader has finished, the president, in a discourse, gives an exhortation to the imitation of these noble things. After this we all rise in common prayer. At the close of the prayer, as we have before described, bread and wine with water are brought. The president offers prayer and thanks for them, according to the power given to him, and the congregation responds with the Amen. Then the consecrated elements are distributed to each one, and partaken, and are carried by the deacons to the houses of the absent. The wealthy and the willing then give contributions according to their free will, and this collection is deposited with the president, who therewith supplies orphans and widows, poor and needy, prisoners and strangers, and takes care of all who are in want. We assemble in common on Sunday, because this is the first day, on which God created the world and the light, and because Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead and appeared to his disciples."

 

[FundamentalDan]

Greg,

I am fully aware of the contextual principle, and I know what the context of the passage is. However, the fact remains that Christ did not condemn the principle of tithing, but rather said that they ought to go ahead and do it. Most of the pharisaical practices Christ condemned. This is one of the only exceptions in the Gospels, and I believe it is there for a reason. Go ahead and explain to me how the context takes away the meaning of, "This ye ought to have done".

 

[Soulman]

Posted by FundamentalDan:I am fully aware of the contextual principle, and I know what the context of the passage is. However, the fact remains that Christ did not condemn the principle of tithing, but rather said that they ought to go ahead and do it.

If you understand the context as you stated, you would see that it was the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done.

As Greg pointed out, Christ was still under the law before the crucifixion. The bottom line is giving is N.T. not tithing. Show me a verse used in context that is for N.T. tithing.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Thank you Soulman...I couldn't have said it better myself.....now...let's all sit here holding our breath waiting for that "in context" verse to be posted.As a side note...I'm told that Jews today don't "tithe" since there is no clearly defined Levitical priesthood in existence currently.Nor is there currently a temple/storehouse to bring the tithes into.I'm sure that orthodox Jews today do give to the support of their synagogs but they certainly don't call it a tithe.

Greg Sr.

 

[Bluefalcon]

Jesus himself said, "Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." And there are several instances of "tithing" by these in the NT. Tithing was a "righteous deed".

Cheers, Bluefalcon

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Blue...that's true...maybe....BUT...nowwhere in the NT do you find "christians" under the dispensation of grace tithing...only giving.The only ones found in the NT that are still tithing are law-keeping Jews....and those are the folks that Jesus was addressing when He mentioned the subject.After Christ ascended into heaven the rest of the New Testament writers under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit go completely silent on the subject...except when the "hebrews" were being addressed.It was never for gentile believers.

Greg Sr.

 

[Frances]

If a preacher told me that the bible teaches that we must tithe in order to be a christian I would leave that church because he's not teaching the truth.,but putting you back under the law which was unprofitable. That's the reason God sent his son so we would have a profitable way of becoming a christian. I'm not saying it's wrong to tithe but to be told and believe you must to be a christian,,,,that's misleading. Watch that minister!!!

 

[RightFromWrong]

Frances wrote ....That's the reason God sent his son so we would have a profitable way of becoming a christian.

Frances either you ARE a Christian or your NOT !

 

[Soulman]

Frances,
I don't know of any ministers that say you have to tithe to be a christian. That is not and never was a requirement for salvation. They will tell you that you are robbing God and that your finaces are headed for a train wreck if you don't. They will tell you to tithe no matter what your circumstances are and God will bless your finances. If you can't pay your electric tithe anyways and trust God to provide. (unbiblical)

 

[Frances]

How can one rob god of something when he doesn't require us to do it?
This is a bribing threat and is very damaging to someone who may believe that minister.
How can he love God and his congregation and try to make them believe such? This is a selfish scare tactic. God is not selfish.

 

[AresMan]

Originally posted by FundamentalDan:
Greg,

I am fully aware of the contextual principle, and I know what the context of the passage is. However, the fact remains that Christ did not condemn the principle of tithing, but rather said that they ought to go ahead and do it. Most of the pharisaical practices Christ condemned. This is one of the only exceptions in the Gospels, and I believe it is there for a reason. Go ahead and explain to me how the context takes away the meaning of, "This ye ought to have done".

Then you go ahead and tithe of your mint, anise, and cummin (and livestock and fruit of the ground and other such titheable commodities) and give to the Levites, the fatherless, the widows, and the strangers within your gates.

 

[Bluefalcon]

I think most on this thread agree that we are commanded "to give", generously, sacrificially, such as David did in the OT, not willing to give a sacrifice that costs him nothing. For most people, a tithe fulfills this role. It is practical. If everyone does it, it usually provides more than enough for the work of the ministry. And, once used to it, it is easy. Also, I speak from my own experience. BTW, U.S. income tax used to average 2 percent, and now it averages something like 25-30 percent. Even non-Christians adapt and learn how to make due with net amounts, not gross amounts.

Cheers, Bluefalcon

 

[AresMan]

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
I think most on this thread agree that we are commanded "to give", generously, sacrificially, such as David did in the OT, not willing to give a sacrifice that costs him nothing.

Amen. I hope you do realize this. I think most here do give generously.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
For most people, a tithe fulfills this role. It is practical.

I agree. A "tithe" (ten percent) could be practical. I just hope you see by now that this supposed "tithe" is not madatory, but can be a good practice.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
If everyone does it, it usually provides more than enough for the work of the ministry.

It definitely could, and I would also hope that those who administer these tithes are also stewards of them. I just somehow think that TBN types such as Hagee who preach hard on "tithing" to often poor loyal home viewers who send their tithe checks in lieu of a bill promising them great financial blessing (and if it doesn't happen it's because they don't have enough "faith"), while they make off with 6- to possibly even 7-digit incomes, with their mansions and sports cars are hardly being stewards of these "tithes".

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
And, once used to it, it is easy. Also, I speak from my own experience.

That's great that it's easy. It also aids in budgeting your income. I can say that once I learned the principle of cheerful giving without a mathematical mandate, I found myself giving much more, because I wasn't trying to reach a specific goal except my own heart. I'll sometimes give a few hundred to a missions project. Most of the time, when a plate is passed (of course, the "offering plate" is another topic of discussion), if I have something in my pocket (even if only large bills), I'll reach in and stick something in. I don't have to think: "Wait, I already paid my 'tithe' this month, so now I can just put $1 in here and there if I'm feeling generous." I feel truly blessed when I just give liberally off-the-cuff without calculating anything.
In fact, today I just gave $500 for Hurricane Katrina victims. I usually try to keep amounts secret from other people, but I'm trying to illustrate a point.

I hope you have given this issue much thought. Try not to just tug the party line of much of what you have been taught without studying for yourself. I used to get frustrated whenever people challenged the current "tithing" practice. However, when I decided to study the issue myself and read (and reread) every verse in the Bible that referenced tithing, I was shocked at how the current practice in churches actually had very little similarity with the actual tithe laws in the Old Testament for the nation of Israel. Then, searching for tithing in the New Testament, I was also surprised to find that there were no references to tithing by the church at all. The only mentions of tithes were by Jesus to the Pharisees, and in Hebrews recalling Old Testament practices.

2 Cor 9:7: "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

How can we give "not ... of necessity" if 10% of our income is a necessity? Believe me I struggled and struggled with this topic. But I believe I have come out the better for my studies. I am glad you can faithfully give 10% and that it is easy. That is wonderful. However it is cheerful giving, and is not a necessity.

God bless.

 

[Bluefalcon]

If a local body of believers chooses to require tithing of all of its members, is that wrong? Couldn't one simply choose not to be a part of such a congregation?