President Obama Changes Declaration of Independence to Omit "Creator"

[webdog]

What basis do you have for that?

The Pledge of Allegiance. US currency. You need more?

Where is man's sin nature or condemnation mentioned in the DOC?

You asked if there was one biblical truth in the phrase. All men are created equal. All men are created in sin.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The Pledge of Allegiance. US currency. You need more?
You asked if there was one biblical truth in the phrase. All men are created equal. All men are created in sin.

Those phrases were added much, much later. Currency in the late mid - late 1800s and the pledge in 1954.

The context in the DOI for equality is dealing with rights. Lets apply your reasoning here:

'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are equally created as sinners, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights'

We have rights on the basis that we are all sinners?

Do you really think that was in Jefferson's mind when he penned these words?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[targus]

They don't exist.

We have no guaranteed rights.

Well then, the politicians don't have to worry about you then do they?

 

[RAdam]

Who gave you life? Did the government give you life? Paul said, of God, "he giveth to all life and breath and all things." Obviously, life came from God. The right to life came from God. God prohibits murder. I do not have the right to end your life. You have a right to life given to you by God. God ordained government to protect your right to life. Governments are ordained of God to be a terror to evil works and uphold justice. They didn't give men the right to life, but they are supposed to uphold and protect that right. The right came from God. He, as giver of that right, can revoke it when He chooses.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Well then, the politicians don't have to worry about you then do they?

Do you think that all men are born with God given rights apart from Christ?

We are born sinners, under the curse, deserving nothing but hell. Apart from Christ that is always man's state.

 

[webdog]

Those phrases were added much, much later. Currency in the late mid - late 1800s and the pledge in 1954.

The context in the DOI for equality is dealing with rights. Lets apply your reasoning here:

'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are equally created as sinners, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights'

We have rights on the basis that we are all sinners?

Do you really think that was in Jefferson's mind when he penned these words?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

Complete strawman. All men are created equal. All men are created in sin and placed in the exact location and place in time to seek God (Acts 17:26). That most certainly applied to all men being created equal.

Do you believe that man is born with certain unalienable rights over another human being? If so you should have no problem with slavery.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

They didn't give men the right to life, but they are supposed to uphold and protect that right.

Really? Where does one find that idea in scripture?

 

[RAdam]

Those phrases were added much, much later. Currency in the late mid - late 1800s and the pledge in 1954.

The context in the DOI for equality is dealing with rights. Lets apply your reasoning here:

'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are equally created as sinners, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights'

We have rights on the basis that we are all sinners?

Do you really think that was in Jefferson's mind when he penned these words?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

Let me ask you a question: how can the truth that all men were created equal be self-evident except through the bible? History certainly didn't provide the evidence needed to convince men that all are created equal. No, the source that information came from was the bible. Men had all sorts of idea with which he attempted to cast his race superior to another, but Paul said that God "hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth."

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Enjoying the discussion guys, but I have really messed this thread up. If someone wants to open a new thread I will be happy to continue there a little later. I am not going to post any more here and mess this thread up any more than I have.

 

[RAdam]

Really? Where does one find that idea in scripture?

Romans 13:1-4

 

[Aaron]

And where are they found in the Bible? Does God really give all men the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

The early church certainly did not have those rights.

What you're basically saying is that there is no such thing as injustice—one of the most asinine things I've ever seen posted on this board.

To the rational individuals in this thread: Governments were instituted (by God) to punish the evildoer and praise those who do well. In other words, to establish justice. That's straight out of the Scriptures.

The "Rule of Law" is the idea of Natural Law, that every man (even kings) is equally bound by the Natural Law not to steal, murder or otherwise oppress his neighbor.

"Thou shalt do no murder" is the right to life. "Thou shalt not steal" is the right to property and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[RalphIII]

Like I said earlier, “liberals/atheists/separatists…” don’t like to acknowledge the Declaration of Independence, or truly anything, which points to our Biblical/Christian heritage. It never ceases to disappoint me when Christians do such.


I think C4K is a separatists, though he showed an open mind years ago when many of these same Biblical aspects were pointed out http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=30576. Much of this can easily be researched and the Government itself acknowledges the role religion, specifically Christianity, played in our founding http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel03.html.


In regards to our national motto, “In God We Trust” as seen on our currency and reflected in the pledge; that sentiment goes back to the beginning of our nation, see the Mayflower Compact.

But to the point, the specific words were first coined in by Francis Scott Keys in a song called “The Star Spangled Banner”. It was so popular it became our National Anthem! In concluding the song goes as follows, “..And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." They shortened it and later began putting it on our coinage (mid 1800’s). In 1956 our government made it the official national motto in order to re-affirm our Christian/Godly heritage and in differentiating us from communism, which was secular/atheistic in nature. That is simply a fact.


In regards to the Declaration of Independence. There should be no doubt as to the Biblical influence upon that document. Indeed, they felt compelled in justifying a War of Independence to God and the world, due to Romans 13.
They listed all the crimes committed by the King of England, which can be seen in the Declaration, and then put it before God;

“….appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions….”;

1 Cor. 7:23 was in part used to justify seeking Independence.

3 “You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men….” .

All of the above is reflected in the Declaration of Independence;

“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government…”

“Liberty”
Galatians 5:1

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free….

“pursuit of happiness”
Ecclesiastes 3:13

13 and also that every man should eat and drink and enjoy the good of all his labor—it is the gift of God.

There are many other biblical references inspired within the Declaration but as C4K only asked for one biblical truth. How can anyone doubt the Biblical truth there is a Creator? Ooops, I forgot that is exaclty what Obama did as in the O.P.?

God Bless America

 

[Dragoon68]

Does anyone really think the Declaration of Independence is a Christian document?

Can anyone list one Biblical truth contained in it with Scripture to back it up?

Why do we get the idea that it must be quoted like scripture?

Did you notice that the writers included the words that Obama deliberately left out? Does that not signify that perhaps he thinks differently about the source of our nation's blessing? Is that not a terrible position for our President to take before God and country as well?