LOL, no.
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President Trump Florida home raided by FBI
- Thread starter canadyjd
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5 point Gillinist
Active Member
You are right, Trump is not a Christian, and repentance while between the individual and God, also manifests itself in public.
I don't embrace Trump as a savior, I voted for him because I thought he was the best option. I know that the argument from Christians who dislike Trump is that he is immoral, therefore we (Christians) shouldn't vote for him. But I also have noticed that that argument isn't extended to degenerates like Clinton or Biden.
When I vote, I am not voting for the head of a Church, I'm voting for a leader of my nation. If my standard for voting is a perfect person, then I could never vote. But if my choice is between evil and a lesser evil, I suppose I'll vote for the lesser evil.
I can only speak for myself when I say I have not voted for Clinton or Biden.
Second, we are all corrupt. In Trump's case, he is unrepentant and that action, out of a self proclaimed Christian, speaks more than words.
God will choose whom he wills to be the head of the executive branch. I would rather vote for my King than vote for persons who do not represent my King.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Austin your self-righteous blindfold has lost you any credibility on this issue. Open your eyes and see what is actually happening here.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
The king isn't on the ballot. People who think like you hand us trash like the Biden Admin.
Indeed, Come Lord Jesus!
If you imagine I have any support for Biden, you imagine falsely.
Moreso, God has given Joe Biden as the executive branch leader. God has given us exactly whom he wills to lead the United States. It is telling that you think I could change God's will by voting for a different, vile, man.
But isn't choosing a lesser evil still choosing evil?
The judgements being doled out here are sinful. Who can judge a man’s heart? Certainly not another flawed man. If one were to be ‘behaving like a Christian’ while making such judgements……………
Only He who is without sin will/can judge so consider that while pontificating your judgements of another.
Only He who is without sin will/can judge so consider that while pontificating your judgements of another.
Let me preface this with acknowledging that I am against all things Biden, DNC, globalist, & friends of globalists, but I do not espouse that because of that they are not self proclaimed Christians, Catholic etc. Food for thought on evil & good:
There Can be no Evil Where There is no Good; and an Evil Man is an Evil Good.
The Enchiridion — St. Augustine
Accordingly, there is nothing of what we call evil, if there be nothing good. But a good which is wholly without evil is a perfect good. A good, on the other hand, which contains evil is a faulty or imperfect good; and there can be no evil where there is no good. From all this we arrive at the curious result: that since every being, so far as it is a being, is good, when we say that a faulty being is an evil being, we just seem to say that what is good is evil, and that nothing but what is good can be evil, seeing that every being is good, and that no evil can exist except in a being. Nothing, then, can be evil except something which is good. And although this, when stated, seems to be a contradiction, yet the strictness of reasoning leaves us no escape from the conclusion. We must, however, beware of incurring the prophetic condemnation: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter." [1104] And yet our Lord says: "An evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil." [1105] Now, what is evil man but an evil being? for a man is a being. Now, if a man is a good thing because he is a being, what is an evil man but an evil good? Yet, when we accurately distinguish these two things, we find that it is not because he is a man that he is an evil, or because he is wicked that he is a good; but that he is a good because he is a man, and an evil because he is wicked. Whoever, then, says, "To be a man is an evil," or, "To be wicked is a good," falls under the prophetic denunciation: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil!" For he condemns the work of God, which is the man, and praises the defect of man, which is the wickedness. Therefore every being, even if it be a defective one, in so far as it is a being is good, and in so far as it is defective is evil.
[1104] Isaiah 5:20
[1105] Luke 6:45
One more observation, I find that the self righteous are among the top reasons that ‘agnostics’ cite for their disdain of Christianity, as the self righteous are seen as hypocrites. I can’t disagree with their reasoning on that. Be humble. It’s important.
There Can be no Evil Where There is no Good; and an Evil Man is an Evil Good.
The Enchiridion — St. Augustine
Accordingly, there is nothing of what we call evil, if there be nothing good. But a good which is wholly without evil is a perfect good. A good, on the other hand, which contains evil is a faulty or imperfect good; and there can be no evil where there is no good. From all this we arrive at the curious result: that since every being, so far as it is a being, is good, when we say that a faulty being is an evil being, we just seem to say that what is good is evil, and that nothing but what is good can be evil, seeing that every being is good, and that no evil can exist except in a being. Nothing, then, can be evil except something which is good. And although this, when stated, seems to be a contradiction, yet the strictness of reasoning leaves us no escape from the conclusion. We must, however, beware of incurring the prophetic condemnation: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter." [1104] And yet our Lord says: "An evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil." [1105] Now, what is evil man but an evil being? for a man is a being. Now, if a man is a good thing because he is a being, what is an evil man but an evil good? Yet, when we accurately distinguish these two things, we find that it is not because he is a man that he is an evil, or because he is wicked that he is a good; but that he is a good because he is a man, and an evil because he is wicked. Whoever, then, says, "To be a man is an evil," or, "To be wicked is a good," falls under the prophetic denunciation: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil!" For he condemns the work of God, which is the man, and praises the defect of man, which is the wickedness. Therefore every being, even if it be a defective one, in so far as it is a being is good, and in so far as it is defective is evil.
[1104] Isaiah 5:20
[1105] Luke 6:45
One more observation, I find that the self righteous are among the top reasons that ‘agnostics’ cite for their disdain of Christianity, as the self righteous are seen as hypocrites. I can’t disagree with their reasoning on that. Be humble. It’s important.
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
wills or allows?
God did not raise up or install Biden nor Trump nor Obama nor any world leader in the last 2000 years. But Satan sure did. Let's remember what Testament we live in.
Under the Mosaic Law, participation in government was encouraged. Remember, this Law functioned to address the needs of national Israel and their physical kingdom. The New Testament Church is distinct from Old Testament Israel in that it’s a spiritual Kingdom governed by spiritual principles looking PAST this physical world. As such, its recourse is neither physical nor political.
There are several reasons for this:
In the Old Testament God had a physical Kingdom and He used this physical Kingdom for His Glory.
In the New Testament God has no physical Kingdom on earth but a Spiritual one. God is no longer raising and lowering kings or kingdoms. He has no physical, earthly interest in the Kingdoms and affairs on earth during our Age. His Kingdom during our time exists only within the hearts of every follower of Christ worldwide. No, I am not talking about the religious/politicals whom name our Lord but do not follow His Teachings. These are of the world and will never let go of the cares, ambitions and priorities of this fake world system devoid of God. God's current Kingdom on earth has no lands, no borders and no human government.
Of course He knows exactly what will happen throughout the Church age but He influences none of it. Consider for a moment why God in the New Testament tells us to pray for those in human government authority? There is no command in the Old Testament similar to that. It is because He did not install them and He has no influence over any of them by His own Choice and His Own Righteous Principals. Our prayers for these worldly leaders are to be Spiritual only in nature for their salvation and escape from satan's grip. In the last age or generation, God works only through individuals, not governments or populations. God receives Glory from His crucified followers whom follow the Perfect Man Jesus and turn their hearts away from the fallen man Adam. Governments however, have been given over by God to satan and satan has full control over them as the "god" of this world.
God will sort the nations out after Mystery Babylon and all her harlot denominations are destroyed and He Returns to establish a Righteous Kingdom on earth separating the goats from the sheep.
Until then, world governments in this age are all Beast Systems:
World governments and political establishments are under the temporal power and authority of the “god of this world”. They are blind to God’s principles and refuse to answer to His authority (regardless of any of their claims):
Matthew 4: 8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
**Note the wording below in the Gospel of Luke:
Luke 4: 5-7 KJV And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Satan's governments have no influence over Christ's followers because we are not of this world any longer.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
**Stop walking according to the course of this counterfeit world.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
*All high places, all the major rulers and kingdoms
2 Corthinians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
*How has he blinded them? Through mystical magic you think? Or perhaps by playing upon men's greed and pride. By influencing the world's rulers to evil. The pride and greed of invention, of technology and the worship of it. By overtaking their institutions, their media, their popular culture through the men who run them.
Please consider Romans 13: 1-2. Our Lord instituted government authority and His Command refers to the offices (institutions) and never specific people. Compared to those Old Testament instances our Lord raised or lowered kings by name. No instance of that occurs in the New Testament including Revelation for a clear reason. Which is very relevant since Daniel's visions describe the last several kingdoms on earth prior to our Lord's Return in Flaming Fire as beasts.
In fact after the first century historical record of His New Spiritual Kingdom on earth, there is no other mention of any events during the last 2000 years contained in Scripture. God calls our age a "mystery" for a reason.
Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 give a snapshot of types of believers in the beginning and a snapshot of what they become in the end. That is the only reference to our age in Scripture. This mystery is also kept throughout the OT. Correlate this to Daniel's 70th week. There is no mention because God is not directly involved folks, put your thinking caps on. He gave us His Complete Word and Spirit to guide us, there has not been nor will there be any intervention by God until His Day begins. After that all of Creation is restored by Him to what He originally made it to be. The Father and Son are silent during our time because The Spirit is here continuously until His Day begins. Nor will there be any revival from God until His Day begins. Hosea gives another hint of "mystery" briefly.
In the book of Daniel, God shows him a vision in which four beasts rise out of the sea (Daniel 7:1-26). These “beasts” correspond to world governments or empires just before our Lord's Return. After them, Daniel sees a man, described as the “Ancient of Days”, setting up an everlasting government that eclipses all the ones prior.
How interesting that the final government is symbolized by Jesus Christ—while all the preceding ones are depicted as “beasts”. Daniel’s vision is just more evidence of an important lesson. In this church age (the last time) and until Christ’s Kingdom arrives to replace the ruler ship of "beasts", we exist in a world governed by satan.
A basic understanding of the difference between the Old Testament way God deals with man and the New Testament way are the polar opposites. Faith came by sight in the OT and Faith comes without sight in the New Testament. No signs will be given our Lord proclaimed during our age except the sign of His death burial and resurrection.
Now if all governments are typified by beasts, headed up by the “god of this world” (Satan), why would we cast our vote for any of them? Why would we serve them militarily in order to advance their “beastly” agendas?
Why would we want to fill the role of political leader or enforce government justice when we understand these positions to be corrupted by Satan’s control? The answer is clear, we don’t! As Christians, we have our own priorities to mind, and we should let the world mind theirs.
In other words, let the dead vote for their dead. We who are alive by His Spirit should not squabble over which dead guy will be our next fake ruler in this counterfeit world system. None of them rule over us, only our Lord Jesus Christ does. Do not bend the knee to any dead man. Oh, I know they won't like it and they will soon come to murder you for it but who cares, our lives since rebirth hold no hope in this world.
Under the Mosaic Law, participation in government was encouraged. Remember, this Law functioned to address the needs of national Israel and their physical kingdom. The New Testament Church is distinct from Old Testament Israel in that it’s a spiritual Kingdom governed by spiritual principles looking PAST this physical world. As such, its recourse is neither physical nor political.
There are several reasons for this:
In the Old Testament God had a physical Kingdom and He used this physical Kingdom for His Glory.
In the New Testament God has no physical Kingdom on earth but a Spiritual one. God is no longer raising and lowering kings or kingdoms. He has no physical, earthly interest in the Kingdoms and affairs on earth during our Age. His Kingdom during our time exists only within the hearts of every follower of Christ worldwide. No, I am not talking about the religious/politicals whom name our Lord but do not follow His Teachings. These are of the world and will never let go of the cares, ambitions and priorities of this fake world system devoid of God. God's current Kingdom on earth has no lands, no borders and no human government.
Of course He knows exactly what will happen throughout the Church age but He influences none of it. Consider for a moment why God in the New Testament tells us to pray for those in human government authority? There is no command in the Old Testament similar to that. It is because He did not install them and He has no influence over any of them by His own Choice and His Own Righteous Principals. Our prayers for these worldly leaders are to be Spiritual only in nature for their salvation and escape from satan's grip. In the last age or generation, God works only through individuals, not governments or populations. God receives Glory from His crucified followers whom follow the Perfect Man Jesus and turn their hearts away from the fallen man Adam. Governments however, have been given over by God to satan and satan has full control over them as the "god" of this world.
God will sort the nations out after Mystery Babylon and all her harlot denominations are destroyed and He Returns to establish a Righteous Kingdom on earth separating the goats from the sheep.
Until then, world governments in this age are all Beast Systems:
World governments and political establishments are under the temporal power and authority of the “god of this world”. They are blind to God’s principles and refuse to answer to His authority (regardless of any of their claims):
Matthew 4: 8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
**Note the wording below in the Gospel of Luke:
Luke 4: 5-7 KJV And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Satan's governments have no influence over Christ's followers because we are not of this world any longer.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
**Stop walking according to the course of this counterfeit world.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
*All high places, all the major rulers and kingdoms
2 Corthinians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
*How has he blinded them? Through mystical magic you think? Or perhaps by playing upon men's greed and pride. By influencing the world's rulers to evil. The pride and greed of invention, of technology and the worship of it. By overtaking their institutions, their media, their popular culture through the men who run them.
Please consider Romans 13: 1-2. Our Lord instituted government authority and His Command refers to the offices (institutions) and never specific people. Compared to those Old Testament instances our Lord raised or lowered kings by name. No instance of that occurs in the New Testament including Revelation for a clear reason. Which is very relevant since Daniel's visions describe the last several kingdoms on earth prior to our Lord's Return in Flaming Fire as beasts.
In fact after the first century historical record of His New Spiritual Kingdom on earth, there is no other mention of any events during the last 2000 years contained in Scripture. God calls our age a "mystery" for a reason.
Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 give a snapshot of types of believers in the beginning and a snapshot of what they become in the end. That is the only reference to our age in Scripture. This mystery is also kept throughout the OT. Correlate this to Daniel's 70th week. There is no mention because God is not directly involved folks, put your thinking caps on. He gave us His Complete Word and Spirit to guide us, there has not been nor will there be any intervention by God until His Day begins. After that all of Creation is restored by Him to what He originally made it to be. The Father and Son are silent during our time because The Spirit is here continuously until His Day begins. Nor will there be any revival from God until His Day begins. Hosea gives another hint of "mystery" briefly.
In the book of Daniel, God shows him a vision in which four beasts rise out of the sea (Daniel 7:1-26). These “beasts” correspond to world governments or empires just before our Lord's Return. After them, Daniel sees a man, described as the “Ancient of Days”, setting up an everlasting government that eclipses all the ones prior.
How interesting that the final government is symbolized by Jesus Christ—while all the preceding ones are depicted as “beasts”. Daniel’s vision is just more evidence of an important lesson. In this church age (the last time) and until Christ’s Kingdom arrives to replace the ruler ship of "beasts", we exist in a world governed by satan.
A basic understanding of the difference between the Old Testament way God deals with man and the New Testament way are the polar opposites. Faith came by sight in the OT and Faith comes without sight in the New Testament. No signs will be given our Lord proclaimed during our age except the sign of His death burial and resurrection.
Now if all governments are typified by beasts, headed up by the “god of this world” (Satan), why would we cast our vote for any of them? Why would we serve them militarily in order to advance their “beastly” agendas?
Why would we want to fill the role of political leader or enforce government justice when we understand these positions to be corrupted by Satan’s control? The answer is clear, we don’t! As Christians, we have our own priorities to mind, and we should let the world mind theirs.
In other words, let the dead vote for their dead. We who are alive by His Spirit should not squabble over which dead guy will be our next fake ruler in this counterfeit world system. None of them rule over us, only our Lord Jesus Christ does. Do not bend the knee to any dead man. Oh, I know they won't like it and they will soon come to murder you for it but who cares, our lives since rebirth hold no hope in this world.
wills
Not true.
God has raised up and installed all leaders in all areas of life, at all times.
*Habakkuk 1:5-11*
“Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, who march through the breadth of the earth, to seize dwellings not their own. They are dreaded and fearsome; their justice and dignity go forth from themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards, more fierce than the evening wolves; their horsemen press proudly on. Their horsemen come from afar; they fly like an eagle swift to devour. They all come for violence, all their faces forward. They gather captives like sand. At kings they scoff, and at rulers they laugh. They laugh at every fortress, for they pile up earth and take it. Then they sweep by like the wind and go on, guilty men, whose own might is their god!”
God is Sovereign over both the good and the evil.
Satan is a fallen angel and no more. Never give Satan more authority than he has. Satan can only do what God ordains he can do.
*Job 1:6-12*
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
*Job 2:1-6*
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! All that a man has he will give for his life. But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”
*Job 42:11*
- Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house. And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him. And each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold.
But he doesn’t have a problem with Biden and his gas lighting… imagine that! What do you think of the latest commentary that July was a 0 inflation month?!?This describes every democrat.
Earth to Joe, earth to Joe 
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Nope.
In the US you can elect anyone by write-in. It is legal. Whether you do something else is for you to decide. In any case, God raises up and tears down people in government. I will not vote for godless people who are openly unrepentant. I am not kowtowing to any political party just because it may be the lesser of two evils.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
which, by default means you do, you just don't see it.I see your argument. I reject your argument as a humanistic argument developed from a winner takes all election system. I simply don't play the game.
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
I guess by that logic we shouldn't vote at all? Was God wrong to pick Saul or David to be king? Both men were evil because both sinned.
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
According to Biden, Bush, Clinton, Obama, etc. they are all "Christians" as well. Jesus is already king, but He has also given us the ability to vote - if I can vote for someone who limits abortion as opposed to allowing someone to murder their child after birth (extreme situation) then I will vote for the person who wants to limit it (though banning it outright is the ideal endgame). Both are ebvil, yet if my vote will save a few more children, then I will do so.
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