You first said it was conditional. Now you are saying it will have its reality. So when will the New H&E of Is. 65 and 66 be fulfilled?
I said, the
basic promise will have its reality. It is
certain details that were conditional, as the next step of God's plan superseded them. All over the OT you see promises made to Israel, that if they keep the Law (of Moses), then God would use them to rule the world UNDER the Law. But since they rejected the Messiah, and had him crucified; the Law was crucified with Him, and now all of that changes. God is not commanding anyone to keep the law of Moses anymore, so any pictures showing people keeping the law of moses in the Kingdom have been revised; though I agree that the dispensationalists have gone of here, making the church age a "parenthesis" placed in the middle of God's true dispensation of Law, which will be reinstituted after the prarenthesis and its contents are removed in a pre-trib rapture, and into the Millennium.
And when was man able to recieve a new nature? 2000+ years from Christ? Or at the time of Christ? Did those 1st century Jews get a new nature? Did you at your conversion? If the answer is yes, it seems by your own words we are in that New H&E.
By new nature, I meant BOTH a new siritual nature (which we have), plus our tangible life (which includes the flesh, which we still struggle with, and still grow old and die). Remember, your view has this double-stage fulfillment of the new nature too, only you can only get the rest of it through death and receiving some totally new spirit body somewhere else.
That is an assumption. The Bible doesn't say those are eternal. This is your fatal flaw, you get to decide which types are to be dual and which aren't. You also have no idea as to what some of these types will fulfill in the anti-type. It becomes a guessing game.
The Bible doesn't say what is eternal? The promises made in Rev.21 & 22? Then what is this eternal existance you believe in? Like I've said all along, it becomes very fuzzy, and almost undefined based on the scriptures left that clearly speak of what happens when you die ("judgment", "gain", "works follow with" us; "like angels"). If ALL of those promises are fulfilled now, and are not eternal (and are only symbolic to begin with, even while pain, suffering and the sorrow of physical death continue), then after death could conceivably be a place of pain and suffering too! We just "gain" some rewards from our "works" perhaps. Perhaps even these and the rest of the "unimaginable joys" will STILL be "perceived by faith and not sight" (i.e. "without observation"), just like now. There is really no promise on this. Too bad the Sadducees didn't accept Christ, but cause they, who hoped "only in this world" would have been happy with that.
As I have shown, preterists don't even know what some of their AD70 "antitypes" are, and it is just as much of a guessing game. I think that would be more justifiable for future antitypes than for
past ones that should be recorded in history already!
And as I said to Warren, it isn't I who decide what is dual and not; it is whether they actually fulfill all of the promise in any useful sense.
Where in scripture does it teach tha Adams rebellion brought physical pain or physical death? Did Adam not have nerve ending before the fall?
Is pain or physical death a
good thing? If you're a God-rejecting naturalist (like those atheists you are so concerned about impressing
), then yes, everything is good; there is no such thing as sin and gad is relative. As far as the exact state of our bodies before the Fall, there is no absolute certainty. Things were obviously different in phsycal creation; because all the animals originally ate only plants, even though we look at them now, and many are clearly built to eat meat.
I hear futurist say our redemption/salvation will be consumated a tthe second coming. They were clearly waiting on something.
9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation .
When did this salvation come?
Like I've said from the beginning; "salvation" (redemption) is threefold: from the penalty of sin, (we have this now) the power of sin (we have this now, but still struggle), and the presence of sin. That last is what we do not have yet, and is what we believe all those references to future "salvation" are referring to.
First "grave" is where the dead are. So it can be metaphoric for those who are spiritually dead being in their grave.
So, it
can be metaphorical". Once again, the whole thing that blows all of this business about "spiritual death only in Corinthians" out of the water, is that in the whole discussion of "graves" here, our resurrection is based on Christ's. Christ
never experienced SPIRITUAL death; so His resurrection was was of the only part of Him that died: the body! This shows that it is physical as well as spiritual death that came as a result of Adam's fall, and that both are what are to be abolished by Christ.
Notice Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
Physical? Look at the context in verse 1:Hosea 13
1 When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died.
Clearly not physical.
Obviously, they did not become
spiritually dead just by that sin. So that
is a "metaphorical" use of "grave", but it is not describing it as a
real place that
spirits go to. Once gain; they already were made spiritually alive at the Cross. AD70 was the ultimate confirmation that their faith was true, but it did not itself give them any "spiritual resurrection"; and also again, Christ was not resurrected from any spiritual death.
Notice Is 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Physical? The timing tells us it is spiritual:
Only if you assume all of that is all symbolically fulfilled already.
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Death has no sting? Isn't the death of even a saved loved one still sorrowful,
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Once again you attach a physical meaning to a spiritual situation.
That is a physical meaning to a physical situation. The question is whether the physical situation was apart of the same "curse" that brought the spiritual situation. The Bible says both situation were to be resolved.
I guess your answer is no, Christ did not accomplish what Heb 2:14 says.
James 1:13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Why is the devil not mentioned here?
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
What does "above all things" include? Even the devil?
Funny that all of those scriptures were written before AD70. (But then I guess that was your "Millennium", and that later, when Satan was "released for a little while" before AD70, then they could blame him for everything again. But this is really another big hole in full preterism, as even the partial prets. point out. For one thing, there are the other scriptures showing that Satan and "wicked spirits in high places" WERE present reality. So we still se both at the same time)
Heb. 2:14 is another promise. "...that He
might destroy...the devil". (not "might as in "possibly", but more like "would" or "will".) This in itself doesn't tell us when He would do it. It was clearly future to them, yet still, they bore responsibility for yielding to their own flesh. Meanwhile,
Jeremiah was written in the Old Covenant; so would that mean he was already destroyed back then too? It is not one or the other; it is Satan who tempts us through our evil desires and puts thoughts and feelings into our hearts and minds. Then in their time, and now. Ultimately, it is Satan who tempts us, not JUST physical things such as our flesh or others; as is clearly obvious in spiritual warfare, which still goes on. (one of the verses you quoted mentions God, but noone here said God tempts us), but it is still up to us to resist him by not giving in to the flesh. (Remarkable, that this "physical only warfare against sin" teaching comes from the very system of eschatology that emphasizes "the spiritual" over the physical!
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Eph 6:12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
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Preterism of course says that was the Jewish age and ended in AD70.
But Satan is not only concerned with the Jewish age. He is the father of ALL lies and deception, and lies and deception still continue on the world. Remember, "gentiles sacrifice...to devils and not to God" (1 Cor.10:20); "Whoever
sins [i.e and remains not covered by the Blood of Christ] is of the Devil" (1 John 3:8-10). While we are in the New Covenant of life, they remain under that old covenant of death. Not to forget that Satan was the one who tempted man in the Garden, long before there was an Israel. Once again, all of the sin and paganism that originally sprang forth was from His deception, and it all still continues on to this day.
