Preterist heretical?

[James_Newman]

So you cannot say why it was bad to believe this before AD 70? Make faith shipwreck?? This is a pretty serious charge. Are you sure your not doing the same?

I think you need to pluck out your 1st century Hebrew eyes and start believing the Bible. There will be a literal resurrection. Christ brought Lazarus back from the dead in his body. Christ was raised in His body. Any resurrection that is not bodily is counterfeit.

1Co 15:35-38
(35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
(36) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
(37) And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
(38) But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

If Paul thought this was something worth disfellowshipping over, you had better think about what your teaching. If you should be found making someone elses faith shipwreck, your going to be in a lot of trouble at the judgment seat of Christ. Doesn't matter if you believe there is no literal judgment seat, or that it happened in the first century.

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Any resurrection that is not bodily is counterfeit.

Even without discussing preterism or futurism, our physical, flesh and blood bodies are not raised - the New Testament is clear on this matter -

1 Cor. 15:42-50 (ESV)
So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. [43] It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. [45] Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. [46] But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. [47] The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. [48] As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. [49] Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
[50] I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[Grasshopper]

I think you need to pluck out your 1st century Hebrew eyes and start believing the Bible.

You mean take the scriptures out of their historical setting?

Do you believe the Bible when John in Rev 1:1,3 says these things must "shortly" come to pass and "the time is near"? How serious do you take inspired scripture? I don't think you want to go down this road.

There will be a literal resurrection.

Something doesn't have to be physical to be literal.

If Paul thought this was something worth disfellowshipping over, you had better think about what your teaching.

Spent the last 3-4 years doing just that.

Resurrection is a thread all its own. However,tell those who were born with extreme physical deformaties that their same body will be raised again and they will have it for eternity.

 

[Daniel David]

Once again, our resurrection will be like Christ's. If Christ rose bodily, so will we. Our physical bodies will be free of any deformities.

Note that in Phil. 3, Paul was already saved and he said he eagerly anticipated the resurrection. Um, um, um, duh. He must have been speaking of bodily resurrection.

Anyone who does not recognize this nonsense as heresy is either ignorant or a false teacher to begin with. It really is that simple.

 

[Ellis Murphree]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Anyone who does not recognize this nonsense as heresy is either ignorant or a false teacher to begin with. It really is that simple.

Ummmmm.......there are a lot of partial preterists who are definately NOT ignorant. Hank Hannegraf (sp) comes to mind.

BTW, Hennegraf defended the typical party line view until recently. As he studied things out, he ended up landing on partial preterism. I doubt that many on this forum would classify him as ignorant nor as a false teacher.

 

[Ellis Murphree]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Preterism on the other hand falls apart when a post 70 AD date is assigned to it.

Full preterism - perhaps. Not partial, though.

 

[Daniel David]

Um, that would be what I was talking about. Do partial preterists deny a bodily resurrection? No. Did I know that? Yes.

Btw, I think many on here would classify Hank as bizarre on alot of ideas. Besides, he is corrupt as Christianity Today has so eloquently pointed out.

 

[Ed Edwards]

If you want 4 partial preterist theorys -- ask
three preterists

 

[Grasshopper]

Our physical bodies will be free of any deformities.

Says who?. Any scripture? Jesus had His scars and ours is just like His.

Note that in Phil. 3, Paul was already saved and he said he eagerly anticipated the resurrection. Um, um, um, duh.

Was this the same Paul that said this:

Romans 13: 11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Nearer? I thought he already had it.Um, um, um, duh

What about Peter:

I Peter 1:5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I thought they had their salvation, why does it need to be revealed? Um, um, um, duh


Eph 4:And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I thought they were already redeemed.Um, um, um, duh

Luke tells us when:

Luke 21:28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The fall of Jerusalem.Um, um, um, duh

Gal 5:5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.

Ooops, I guess they're waiting on their righteousness as well.Um, um, um, duh

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Our physical bodies will be free of any deformities.

It is not our physical, flesh and blood bodies that will be raised. Just read 1 Corinthians 15:42-50 if you think that they will be.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Anyone who does not recognize this nonsense as heresy is either ignorant or a false teacher to begin with. It really is that simple.

What is really simple is that full dispensational premillennialism is nonsensical and heretical - regardless of where full preterism stands - and anyone that teaches dispensational premillennialism is either ignorant or a false teacher to begin with.

So there. Right back at ya.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Kettle:

You sure are black!

-The Pot

 

[KenH]

Yep. Just illustrating how easy on a message board it is throw around words like "ignorant", "nonsense", "false teacher", "heresy", etc. Thanks for catching my
point, Ed.

 

[Daniel David]

Ken, perhaps you enjoy reveling in ignorance, but it is not a desirable state for most people.

Our bodies will be raised, but the nature of the body is what is different. It is still a physical body, it just isn't an 'earthly' or 'carnal' body.

Grasshopper, you have not grasped the threefold aspect of salvation. There is the justification, sanctification, and glorification aspects of salvation. Just read Romans 8.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
It is still a physical body, it just isn't an 'earthly' or 'carnal' body.

That's not what the Bible says, DD.

1 Cor. 15:42-50 (ESV)
So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. [43] It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. [45] Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. [46] But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. [47] The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. [48] As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. [49] Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
[50] I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

A physical body is natural, it is perishable. A spiritual, imperishable body is not a physical body. A physical body is composed of flesh and blood.

Sorry, DD, but you can't get away with twisting the Bible to fit your ideas.

You had best look to yourself before you call anyone else ignorant.

 

[James_Newman]

You getting your definition of spiritual body from Funk and Wagnall? What kind of body was Jesus in when Thomas put his hand in His side?

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by Ellis Murphree:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Daniel David:
Anyone who does not recognize this nonsense as heresy is either ignorant or a false teacher to begin with. It really is that simple.

Ummmmm.......there are a lot of partial preterists who are definately NOT ignorant. Hank Hannegraf (sp) comes to mind.

BTW, Hennegraf defended the typical party line view until recently. As he studied things out, he ended up landing on partial preterism. I doubt that many on this forum would classify him as ignorant nor as a false teacher. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, you can turn Hank off. He took over CRI under strange circumstances when Walter Martin died. The widow and family has written publically about Hank's doings. For a long time, public letters were posted on the Walter Martin website, but now they have been taken down. Is there anything left of Walter Martin at CRI?

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
What kind of body was Jesus in when Thomas put his hand in His side?

So if you die with your left arm missing, James, do you expect to be resurrected the same way? If you are going to use that argument, then you are stuck without a left arm.

Jesus was proving that it was indeed He that was resurrected. No such proof is necessary in our cases. Jesus no longer bears those marks in his glorified state today as He is no longer in a flesh and blood body as He was when He was resurrected.

As the Bible says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". I wish Christians would simply believe God.

 

[Daniel David]

Ken, what I am saying is in complete harmony with that text you posted. In fact, that is the text I was thinking of.

You are assuming that physical means "after the fashion of the earth". I am saying that understanding is incorrect.

Christ rose bodily, it was a spiritual (incorruptible) body. He isn't merely a phantom that assumes form now and then. He has an actual, physical body. It just isn't fashioned after the earth, like our present bodies.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Christ rose bodily, it was a spiritual (incorruptible) body.

No, Jesus arose in the same physical body that He died in. He still bore the marks of His crucifixion.

We are not raised in the same physical bodies that we die in. We will not bear the marks of our earthly life.

We can go round and round about this but I doubt either of us will change our mind.