Prevenient Grace - Catholic View

[utilyan]

As I stated in my previous response to your question regarding my church's ability to forgive sins, I said no, it cannot. You state above that Jesus's Church can. Provide scripture to support your position.

The purpose of the local body of believers, the ekklesia, is to build-up the body and observe the ordinances - baptism, the Lord's supper.



What is the purpose of the church? | GotQuestions.org
Question: "What is the purpose of the church?"

"Answer: Acts 2:42 could be considered a purpose statement for the church: “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” According to this verse, the purposes/activities of the church should be 1) teaching biblical doctrine, 2) providing a place of fellowship for believers, 3) observing the Lord’s supper, and 4) praying.

The church is to teach biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place of fellowship, where Christians can be devoted to one another and honor one another (Romans 12:10), instruct one another (Romans 15:14), be kind and compassionate to one another (Ephesians 4:32), encourage one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11), and most importantly, love one another (1 John 3:11)..."

No where does scripture teach that the local assembly can forgive sins.

John 20
22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive the sins of any, their sins [d]have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”


Matthew 18

15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them


The church is one body with Jesus Christ
Ephesians 5

28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body.



2 Corinthians 2

10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; 11Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Here is Paul forgiving sin in the person of Christ (what priests do).

 

[Titus Tarnum]

"I ask forgiveness all the time because it hurts me and God when I sin,"

You don't owe God an apology though correct? The debt was already settled at the cross.

Why is the "account" of Jesus dying on the Cross being activated? Why are you going back to (or repeating) that event?

See, I see you almost doing the same thing, just less formalized, less embellishments.

When you sin we don't see a whole new beef between you and God, were all mankind falls again and then we need a new sacrifice to cover for you. I think a lot is going to hang on that first question, Do you OWE God an apology for the sins you might do today?

Before I was saved I was doomed but after I was saved the relationship between me and God changed and now I am a child of His. My Pastor says Christ took the punishment for our sin on the cross but we still are disciplined when we sin Heb 12:6-11
This is pretty basic stuff that any non-Catholic Christian would know and you have probably came across in your life so I wonder why you are still trying to defend this

You
Why is the "account" of Jesus dying on the Cross being activated?

You are still thinking I need a sin sacrifice when I sin even though a lot of Hebrews says the blood was spilled a long time ago when ALL my sin was paid for and I can't crucify Christ again... I have pointed out this and many other points that You can't reconcile with your beliefs so like I said before we are going to have to agree to disagree [emoji3][emoji3590]

 

[utilyan]

Before I was saved I was doomed but after I was saved the relationship between me and God changed and now I am a child of His. My Pastor says Christ took the punishment for our sin on the cross but we still are disciplined when we sin Heb 12:6-11


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You were always his child, he never loved you less. You do get disciplined.

But that is not what I am asking. If you do wrong do you think you OWE God an apology? Not asking what your pastor thinks.

If I run outside punt kick some child.......do you think I owe God an apology today?

 

[Titus Tarnum]

See above, you must've posted right after I posted


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[Titus Tarnum]

And before you go there, because I have a feeling you will ,ask yourself when was Abrahams sins paid for they were paid for after he died. Abraham looked forward to the cross we look behind like I said this is basic stuff but maybe it will help somebody else


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[utilyan]

See above, you must've posted right after I posted


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I'm quoting your post.

If you do wrong do you think you OWE God an apology?

Just tell me you don't if you don't or do if you do. OR if you don't know and will check back, its not a problem.

 

[Titus Tarnum]

I'll bring it forward for you [emoji3]

Before I was saved I was doomed but after I was saved the relationship between me and God changed and now I am a child of His. My Pastor says Christ took the punishment for our sin on the cross but we still are disciplined when we sin Heb 12:6-11
This is pretty basic stuff that any non-Catholic Christian would know and you have probably came across in your life so I wonder why you are still trying to defend this

You
Why is the "account" of Jesus dying on the Cross being activated?

You are still thinking I need a sin sacrifice when I sin even though a lot of Hebrews says the blood was spilled a long time ago when ALL my sin was paid for and I can't crucify Christ again... I have pointed out this and many other points that You can't reconcile with your beliefs so like I said before we are going to have to agree to disagree [emoji3][emoji3590]

And before you go there, because I have a feeling you will ,ask yourself when was Abrahams sins paid for they were paid for after he died. Abraham looked forward to the cross we look behind like I said this is basic stuff but maybe it will help somebody else

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[Titus Tarnum]

I'm quoting your post.

I read of all of LaGrange's posts before I decided what I was going to say and like he says in one of his posts it's like learning a different language. I have studied the Catholic doctrine's in the past and this isn't my first rodeo either. I know enough about the Catholic doctrine to know (for myself) that they are inferior to let's say the Baptist doctrines for example. That isn't meant to be hurtful just what I've observed in my studies. I am just your average guy that reads the Bible and listens to the radio and goes to church and listens to his pastor. Who are you Utilyan, and who is LaGrange; are you two just two ordinary average Catholics visiting an opposing views forum? Col 2:2, 3

 

[Titus Tarnum]

I wish we had more time though because looking back at some of your posts I wanted to talk about post 95 and your views concerning Calvinism's exclusivity, I actually kind of agree with you on that one, and BTW I am not a Calvinist. For example you said their doctrine makes God Nazi-ish, but when you think about it, God knew before the foundation of the world that a bunch of people were going to die no matter if your views are Calvinistic or Catholic or Arminianism or Buddhism or whatever He knew a whole bunch of people were going to die but He created us anyways and I was curious about your views on that[emoji3]

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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