Primary responsibility of a pastor?

[Reynolds]

Did you see my earlier note? As a pastor of 4 small churches (which is the average in the sbc) I can tell you that typically the average church member wants little to nothing to do with sharing the gospel no matter how much it is done or pushed by the pastor. Even with that said, the primary role according to scripture, of the pastor is the word and prayer. I would also add that the prayer lives of the average church member is weak. What is passed for serious prayer in the average church is nothing more than aunt suzies hang nail and sister barbs cancer. We should pray for those things but those are not spiritual ware fare.

The demise of the church is tied to a lack of solid prayer that deals with serious issues and coverage of ministry that everyone thinks the next guys should be doing and not them.

The members of most churches who have evangelistic pastors become evangelistic themselves. The SBC ideas of "lifestyle evangelism" and the notion that evangelism is not the job of the pastor have destroyed most churches. The pastor nor the members evangelize.

I remember Bailey Smith saying he himself always led at least 50 people, who did not attend his church, to Christ every year. His people were evangelistic because he was evangelistic. Bailey is the one who got me thinking about this topic. He contends evangelism is the primary responsibility of the pastor and that the demise of our churches is due to the fact our pastors have become non-evangelistic.

 

[Revmitchell]

The members of most churches who have evangelistic pastors become evangelistic themselves. The SBC ideas of "lifestyle evangelism" and the notion that evangelism is not the job of the pastor have destroyed most churches. The pastor nor the members evangelize.

I remember Bailey Smith saying he himself always led at least 50 people, who did not attend his church, to Christ every year. He said his people were evangelistic because he was evangelistic. Bailey is the one who got me thinking about this topic. He contends evangelism is the primary responsibility of the pastor and that the demise of our churches is due to the fact our pastors have become non-evangelistic.

Its just not true in todays church.

 

[HankD]

Years ago (60's - 70's) there seemed much more activity at the local churches.
Sunday - morning and evenings services
Wednesday - prayer meeting/
Thursday - Visitation/AWANA

I looked forward to visitation - Visitor cards were used, elderly, students were visited, sick...
many souls were added to the church through our visitation ministry.
We never felt pressured and we enjoyed the fellowship and camaraderie.

A whole lot less social and communications technology in those days.

I was the assistant pastor/youth director.

 

[Reynolds]

Its just not true in todays church.

What changed? Did it stop working or did the pastors stop trying because seminaries told them it was not their job? It was still working for Smith when he died. The only true growing church in our county is growing because the pastor is very evangelistic and personally brings people in. They are very fundamental, by the way. Not seeker sensitive. Not modern.

 

[Reynolds]

Years ago (60's - 70's) there seemed much more activity at the local churches.
Sunday - morning and evenings services
Wednesday - prayer meeting/
Thursday - Visitation/AWANA

I looked forward to visitation - Visitor cards were used, elderly, students were visited, sick...
many souls were added to the church through our visitation ministry.
We never felt pressured and we enjoyed the fellowship and camaraderie.

A whole lot less social and communications technology in those days.

I was the assistant pastor/youth director.

Did it quit working or did you just quit doing it?

 

[agedman]

Did you see my earlier note? As a pastor of 4 small churches (which is the average in the sbc) I can tell you that typically the average church member wants little to nothing to do with sharing the gospel no matter how much it is done or pushed by the pastor. Even with that said, the primary role according to scripture, of the pastor is the word and prayer. I would also add that the prayer lives of the average church member is weak. What is passed for serious prayer in the average church is nothing more than aunt suzies hang nail and sister barbs cancer. We should pray for those things but those are not spiritual ware fare.

The demise of the church is tied to a lack of solid prayer that deals with serious issues and coverage of ministry that everyone thinks the next guys should be doing and not them.

My, but this post is so very true!

Simple marking it as agreed didn’t seem enough.

 

[agedman]

What changed? Did it stop working or did the pastors stop trying because seminaries told them it was not their job? It was still working for Smith when he died. The only true growing church in our county is growing because the pastor is very evangelistic and personally brings people in. They are very fundamental, by the way. Not seeker sensitive. Not modern.

Society changed.

Look at the typical Sunday School.

Where are the greater majority of those children, now?

Hard, lethargic, more interested in the worldly that the heavenly.

Resent studies have indicated Sunday School has actually been harmful for a church.

Most millennials want nothing to do with “graded classes” but thrive in small life groups.

Some churches have moved from educating the young in isolation to total immersion with parents in small groups where they emulate the adults listening and discussing the things of God.

Here are two published articles pertaining to SS which may be valuable to the discussion:

The Sunday School Syndrome

What's the Pastor's Role in Sunday School?

 

[rlvaughn]

What is the primary responsibility of a pastor?

Acts 20:28-29 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
1 Peter 5:1-3 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

 

[Jerome]

Pastors Must Practice Evangelism

"In his final letter, Paul charges Timothy, his son in the faith, to 'do the work of an evangelist' (2 Tim. 4:5). By these words, the aged Apostle establishes the timeless standard for pastoral ministry, not only for young Timothy but for all pastors in every generation and in every place."

"With Apostolic authority, this imperative command comes with binding force. All pastors must do the work of an evangelist....[This] requires going where unconverted people are and unashamedly sharing Christ....May every pastor enter joyfully into this privileged task of doing the work of an evangelist."


Hallelujah!

 

[agedman]

Pastors Must Practice Evangelism

"In his final letter, Paul charges Timothy, his son in the faith, to 'do the work of an evangelist' (2 Tim. 4:5). By these words, the aged Apostle establishes the timeless standard for pastoral ministry, not only for young Timothy but for all pastors in every generation and in every place."

"With Apostolic authority, this imperative command comes with binding force. All pastors must do the work of an evangelist....[This] requires going where unconverted people are and unashamedly sharing Christ....May every pastor enter joyfully into this privileged task of doing the work of an evangelist."


Hallelujah!

This is not just for pastors. Every member is given the commission by the Lord.

In a recent business meeting, evangelism was discussed, and a question by one of the oldest members was, “How much will that cost us?”

Being a witness is the obligation of every believer, however, I do present that the ministry of evangelism is a gift.

Just as evangelist would show up from time to time in the walk of Pilgrim, the evangelist isn’t just a soul winner, but encourager to those in the walk.

In fact, the greatest work an evangelist can do is engage believers to get busy, encourage others to being the faithful witness, to bring some vision in their own life demonstrated that the assembly my earnestly seek the wisdom and vision from God in their own estate.

John R Rice is an example of one far more influential as an encourager as well as superb soul winner, for his influence continues we’re others died with them.

 

[HankD]

D

Did it quit working or did you just quit doing it?

The older I got the less involved I was. I'm 77 now and only get out to go to the store or church. I do get to witness to the JWs and Mormons when they show up, sometimes at the clinic or the Walmart parking lot also.

 

[Reynolds]

D

The older I got the less involved I was. I'm 77 now and only get out to go to the store or church. I do get to witness to the JWs and Mormons when they show up, sometimes at the clinic or the Walmart parking lot also.

By "you", I meant your church.

 

[HankD]

By "you", I meant your church.

uh, well it's almost 50 years ago. Looking online i see two services but that's all.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I know I’m a bit late to this thread. But I wanted to give this some thought.

First, I considered the Great Commission in Matthew 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
then Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

In these verses, I see that personal evangelism is the duty of all followers of Christ. Also, that disciplining is, according to Matt 28:20, part and parcel with evangelism.

Then, I considered, Ephesians 4:11:
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
In this listing, I see that the ministry of evangelist is separate from the ministry of pastor and teacher.

But this doesn’t let the pastor off the hook to be evangelistic. I also considered John 21:
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Preaching evangelistic messages is part of feeding the flock a well-balanced diet. A pastor can’t say evangelism is not my job.

 

[agedman]

Then, I considered, Ephesians 4:11:
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
In this listing, I see that the ministry of evangelist is separate from the ministry of pastor and teacher.

But this doesn’t let the pastor off the hook to be evangelistic. I also considered John 21:
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Preaching evangelistic messages is part of feeding the flock a well-balanced diet. A pastor can’t say evangelism is not my job.

Do you (as some do) consider the office of pastor and teacher the same?

I do not.

As with any list the coma separation is optional prior to the "and."

However, I also recognize the greek did not include a conjunction between, but pastor then an instructor.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

To a certain extent I do. I'll let @John of Japan deal with the και in Eph 4:11. However, in my rough-hewn opinion, I treat it as a dash as in pastor-teacher. A pastor must have the gift of teaching to accomplish his responsibility to disciple his flock. A teacher many times is the pastor to their students. In my home church, a lady taught the primary 1 and 2 class. She effectively pastored those kids for over forty years. The same can be true for teachers of older students.

Do you (as some do) consider the office of pastor and teacher the same?

I do not.

As with any list the coma separation is optional prior to the "and."

 

[John of Japan]

To a certain extent I do. I'll let @John of Japan deal with the και in Eph 4:11. However, in my rough-hewn opinion, I treat it as a dash as in pastor-teacher. A pastor must have the gift of teaching to accomplish his responsibility to disciple his flock. A teacher many times is the pastor to their students. In my home church, a lady taught the primary 1 and 2 class. She effectively pastored those kids for over forty years. The same can be true for teachers of older students.

The first time I ran across the view that it is "pastor-teacher" in Eph. 11, and not "pastor and teacher," was in the writings of John MacArthur. He quoted the Granville Sharp rule for his interpretation that pastor-teacher is one office and not two. (See: https://www.theopedia.com/granville-sharps-rule) However, he was mistaken in this, because the Granville Sharp rule is applicable only to singular nouns, but the nouns in Eph. 4:11 are plural.

Having said that, the passage answers the OP: the offices of Eph. 4:11 are designed not to do ministry by themselves, but to train the believers for ministry.

 

[John of Japan]

To be fair, a Greek scholar friend is working me through the possibility that the Granville Sharp rule can be applied to plural nouns in certain cases. (I'm not sure I get it yet, but I'm working on it.) He believes that the GS rule can apply to Eph. 4:11, so "pastor-teacher" is a possible interpretation.

 

[Reynolds]

To be fair, a Greek scholar friend is working me through the possibility that the Granville Sharp rule can be applied to plural nouns in certain cases. (I'm not sure I get it yet, but I'm working on it.) He believes that the GS rule can apply to Eph. 4:11, so "pastor-teacher" is a possible interpretation.

Must be true because Johnny Mac is never wrong.

 

[Salty]

Must be true because Johnny Mac is never wrong.

Actually, he thought one time he was wrong - but he was mistaken.