Primitive baptist

I live in the deep south, and I believe God chose a people before the foundation of the world and those whom He chose, Christ died for them and only them. If Christ died for all men, all would be saved. MATT 1:21

 

Were you saved before you accepted Him? Were you saved before you repented of your sins? Seeing that the Bible says "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
And why doesn't John 3:16 say: For God so loved His people, that He gave His only begotten Son; that whosoever of His chosen should believe on Him should not perish, but have evrlasting life."

Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

 

Matt. 1:21"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
This is a reference to Israel. (His people)
He came for the lost sheep of Israel, but because of thier rejection it was extended to the gentiles.
Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

Romans 11:11,12 "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?"

and Romans 11:30-32 " 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

I would that you would read Romans chapter 11 all the way through so you will see these verses are not taken out of context.

 

MATT 1:21...His people....are the ones Christ died for...If His people were ALL jews, every jew would be born again. JOHN 6:37 All that the Father GIVETH me SHALL come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. The ONLY ones that can and will come to Christ are the ones that the Father gave to Christ and every one that the Father gave to Christ SHALL come to Him and He will never cast them away. I know exactly what you believe because I once believed the same way...till I started studying the bible. Most people believe what comes from the pulpit regardless if it is right or wrong. You need to keep JOHN 3:16 in it's context...it is the most misused verse in the bible. Please read EPHESIANS.

 

We used to have a Primitive Baptist Forum on the old BB. I wonder if some the PBs are still around to answer your questions.

 

Hi folks.

Im back. I may regret it, but I am back.

To the questions on this subject:
++++
But there is one question I hope someone can answer. Do primitive baptist believe that someone can be baptized for the dead?

++++++

There is no orthodox Primitive Baptist or un orthodox for that matter, who believes this one.

Jeff Weaver

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by webmaster:
We used to have a Primitive Baptist Forum on the old BB. I wonder if some the PBs are still around to answer your questions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would have likely been me, I was the first Primitive Baptist to participate here. Some may remember me, some not. At any rate, a bit about me, for those who might care to know.

The posting name is my real name. I live in Arlington, VA, a mile up the street from the Pentagon and the Phone # is in the book.

I am an Elder in the church, but no longer preach very often because of health problems. There arent many Primitive Baptists in this part of the world any way. :-( When we can we do attend Old Carroll Primitive Baptist Church at Mt. Airy, Maryland -- There are others closer, but this one is composed of folks from Appalachia, as I am, so we feel more comfortable there with the style of worship, though the doctrinal points would be the same at any in this area.

So, if there is anything you want to know, ask, I will respond as best I can, but I will not debate. It isn't in me, and I think most Primitive Baptists, at least the ones I know are about the same.

One question that is in the above collection of posts about churches meeting only once a month wasn't completely answered.

It is very true that in times past and gone it was the common practice of Primitive Baptists to meet once a month on a Saturday and Sunday, and there are lots of churches where that is still true, but in many it is not. Some meet every Sunday, some even more than once on Sunday, but most meet at least every other weekend. The reasons for this are probably difficult for those who aren't used to it to grasp, but here they are:

a. In some areas there aren't enough ministers to go around, so, once a month is it.
b. Tradition.
c. Some have left it this way so that their members might visit other congregations on the off meeting weekends. (I think this is the most common reason for meeting once a month even to this day). There are some very large Primitive Baptist Churches in Eastern Kentucky (250 members for us is very large and if they all gang up and rotate around, you can get congregations of close to 800 at a time. Another odd thing about Primitive Baptists, at least in Appalachia, we have many more folks who attend that have never joined the church.
d. Some of our folks are just plain stubborn about it.
e. Fearing of offending a sister church. -- In that, if one large church started holding service every weekend, and there was a small church near by then those in the small church might think that the large church was trying to absorb them. Makes sense to me, hopefully to you as well.

Primitive Baptist practice is much the same in many places as it was when the great division took place in 1832, and hopefully fairly close to what it was in the early days of the church. Whether or not that is the case, is always debateable, but most of us seem relatively happy with the practice.

Hope it helps.

Jeff Weaver

 

Jeff,

Hey! How've you been? Welcome back to the board.

I have a couple of questions: Are there any PB's who use musical instruments in worship? Why don't PB's pay their pastors?

 

Joey,

Given all the clear scriptures I quoted you, many even referring directly to the "elect," you argue against clear irrefutable evidence with your mind already made up that you are not interested in the truth. I have no need to argue further if you choose to turn a blind eye and stubborn mind to what is clearly stated in God's Word.

Now if you showed an interest in learning rather than arguing, I could show you how the verses you are referencing fit perfectly with the ones I've given. The ball's in your court!

 

Hey Michael.

Up and down. Recovering from pneumonia, now, but such is the life of a chronically ill yahoo such as myself.

As for Musical instruments, yes there are some, properly called Progessive Primitive Baptists. These folks are mainly in Georgia, Alabama, and surrounding areas (white folks). Most African-American Primitive Baptists would fall into the category of being progressive as well, in that they have musical instruments, Sunday schools, revivals, etc. That said, there are some old line African-American Primitive Baptist congregations, and some mixed race congregations of both types.

As for paying ministers -- I know of no Primitive Baptist church which sets a salary for their pastor. Many, however, are very generous and there are some full time Primitive Baptist ministers, completely supported by their congregation. The last church I pastored was very generous with me, but I worked a secular job as well. As for the Biblical reason -- I will mess it up because I don't have it in front of me, but has to do with the admonition to go into all the world and preach the gospel, and take nothing basically, and that God would provide. If that doesn't make sense, I'll take the time to look up the scripture. Since my stroke, I can't get things like that right, and I would rather try to point to something rather than quote it incorrectly.

Basically the same reason we are opposed to missions as the term is commonly used. It would appear that to do other wise would show a lack of faith in the providence of God.

Take care my Arminian friend.

Jeff

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Weaver ]

 

Jeff,

Thanks a lot. I'm sorry to hear that you've had pneumonia; I'm going to pray for you on a daily basis.

I wonder why I feel kind of drawn to Primitive Baptists when I'm so much, as you say, an Arminian. I think one reason is that they're consistent in their interpretation and application of scripture. And I think PB's have a passion for the pure Gospel.

One more question: Do any PB's that you know of ordain women?

I think I might yet visit Shiloh church near Coffeeville.

 

Michael

Thanks for the prayers. I always need all I can get.

As for the ordination of women. Nope, ain't going to happen amongst us. It isn't even an issue among us.

We are a peculiar people (a phrase we don't find offensive and use about ourselves). In many ways we are extremely conservative, and yet in many others we are extremely liberal, at least in my part of the world that is the case. And I don't have any problem being that way, nor do I consider it to be an inconsistent position. I'm not particularly fond of those terms anyway.

At any rate, we can be very literal in our intrepretation of scripture when it is clear of meaning, at least in our point of view. Yet, you would be hard pressed to find a less judgmental group of people, for the most part. Though you will find some on occasion that are difficult to get along with, just as in any other church or group of people.

Hope it helps.

Jeff

 

Jeff,

When you say extremely liberal, could you give me some examples?

BTW, I don't think I've ever met a more congenial Calvinist than you.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Jeff,
When you say extremely liberal, could you give me some examples?

BTW, I don't think I've ever met a more congenial Calvinist than you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. I try to be nice, most of the time. Whether or not I suceed, however, is another matter entirely.

As for being extremely liberal.

A great many of our members are heresy of heresy, Democrats.

A great many of us try to separate love for a sinner from the sin. For example, I know of no Primitive Baptist Church that would accept a murderer as a member, but that would not preculde the murderer eventually becoming a child of God. (Saul/Paul immediately comes to mind). That might be a rare case, but we do believe it is within the realm of possibility for Godto perform a work of grace in the heart of any individual at some point between conception and death. I think that most of us would take the position that an alcoholic could be a child of God, without giving up drinking. In that we, at least a good number of us, realize that it is a mental illness which is exceedingly difficult to treat. I would no more shun an alchoholic than I would a diabetic. (Easy for me to say since I am a diabetic). Most of us from Appalachia would give a great deal of support to labor unions. None of our folks would give a blanket condemnation to another group of people. We might to approve or like what they do, but I would never presume that the method of baptism or indeed whether a person had ever been baptized or not would have any bearing on their relationship with God.

I might totally disagree with someone's theological thinking, but I would never presume to say whether or not that person is a child of God, and even if the external evidence was that they were not, I would never assume that God would not at some point in the future perform a work of grace within them. In other words I am not a Jonathan Edwards kind of guy, and most Primitive Baptists I know aren't either - but a lot of Calvinists/neo-Calvinists are.

That being said, I think a lot of it depends on how we view God and man -- how we view the nature of God and the nature of man. I wouldn't think we would agree on how we view God and man, and I won't condemn you for your views--lots of folks will. I think it is wrong to condemn someone for disagreeing with him/her. No one person, no one church, has an exclusive on the truth, and truth is revealed to everyone differently. (I didn't say the truth was different, just how we get there, if we ever do in this life, is). Do I have the truth? I don't know. I believe that I do, or I would believe something else, but to be absolutely assured of it, no I am not. Why do I believe what I do? Hard to explain, but I hope it is because I have studied God's word well enough and God has given me grace enough to come to the correct conclusions about what His word means. It gives me some comfort to know I am not alone in what I believe -- in that there are other Primitive Baptists in the world. Are Primitive Baptists 100% correct -- probably not. Is any other group of people 100% correct in their theology, Baptist or otherwise, -- probably not. We know in part, see in part, and look through a glass darkly. The question is, Is the glass darker on my side or your side. We will never know in this lifetime. But we must contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. How best to do this, I don't know, but I believe that being kind one to another, comforting one another is the way to go about it. I can spout this point or that point and someone else can counter with this or that, but ultimately it is our actions that belie what is in our hearts. And I belive that only God is capable of changing one's heart, so ultimately how we treat one another is what it is all about, and the evidence of God's work within us.

And yes I know that some here will consider this to be heresy.

Hope all is well in Mississippi.

 

Elder Weaver, Brother Glen here from Little Bethany Primitive Baptist Church in San Diego, CA. Just wanted to let you know there are other Primitive Baptist here.

I also believe in constructive agumentation and just present the scriptures in a doctrinal truth format.

I also don't believe in heated debates because it rarely changes anyones point of view and we are warned in scriptures to refrain from this practice.

Looking forward to talking to you on the PB discussion forum and pray your health is restored... Just a servant in Christ... Brother Glen

 

Just wanted to add a few things I wholeheartly agree on what you said, and say Amen and Amen to the Spirit of kindness you expained them in.

I also attend a black congregation where Elder Amos Todd is the pastor of Mt. Calvary Primitive Baptist Church.

Our church Little Bethany a white congregation shares the church with Mt. Calvary a black congregation and there is church every Sunday.

I've been in the church for 35 years and am a song leader and church clerk. I was more or less born in the church as to those who come to the church from other denominations.

In the beginning of this post I put in our articles of faith taken from the PB website so those who want to know our beliefs can read them... And as we believe... "Consider what I say, and the Lord giveth thee the understanding."

I would like to thank the moderators of this board for giving us Primitive Baptist an opportunity to share our beliefs and I know Elder Weaver would agree with me... Brother Glen

 

Bro. Glen.

Nice to meet you. Hope all is well in California.

It was nice to see that you agreed with me. It is always hard to know exactly how others understand things to be. And I am not always the best at expressing myself, have gotten forgetful since my stroke. At any rate, I used to live in California, and attended the Little Vine Church in Livermore when we were out there. I was in the army at the time, stationed at the Presidio of Monterey in language school then, - in the mid-80s. Those folks were very kind to take in a stranger and make him feel at home, let us spend time with them when not on duty, etc., and I have never forgotten the kindness. I also could detect no difference in what you folks out there belived than we here in the east.

Back when I was around before (last year) there was another fellow from Georgia who was a Primitive Baptist who was here, but don't see any posts from him on the new board. I think his name was Chris, but not sure now.

If you get a chance to come to Virginia or Maryland, holler, our door is always open, and you would be more than welcome to stay with us, I'll even keep you up all night so you won't have to go to bed hungry.

Jeff

 

Jeff,

Your last post to me is one of the best posts I have ever read by anyone, anywhere.

A question: Could you explain further what you meant when you said that you and most Primitive Baptists are not Jonathan Edwards kind of people but a lot of Calvinists/neo-Calvinists are? (I know who Edwards was)

Also, do the Progressive Primitive Baptists have a headquarters? Are there any PPB churches in Mississippi that you know of?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Your last post to me is one of the best posts I have ever read by anyone, anywhere.

A question: Could you explain further what you meant when you said that you and most Primitive Baptists are not Jonathan Edwards kind of people but a lot of Calvinists/neo-Calvinists are? (I know who Edwards was)

Also, do the Progressive Primitive Baptists have a headquarters? Are there any PPB churches in Mississippi that you know of? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Michael

Thanks for writing, I was going to ask you a couple of questions too. Just as well to do it now, then will get to yours.

I went poking around the board this afternoon and found some of your posts, in which you mention Primitive Baptists, and some of your information is, and [B}NO[/B] disrespect is intended, just plain wrong. So the question is, what is the source of your knowledge about us (Primitive Baptists)? I would love to get into this issue, if you have the inclination to do so. If not, then that is fine too. Others also have a very odd view of us, as evidenced by some of the questions in this thread, so it is a common problem.

Jonathan Edwards -- the fellow, whom, if not mistaken, preached the famous sermon commonly titled "Sinners in the hands of an Angry God." I don't believe God looks at us that way -- I do believe that God looks at his children through a glass darkly, stained by the blood of Christ, shed on the cross for his people, whom ever, when ever, and where ever they might be.

As for Progressive Primitive Baptists in Mississippi. There are some, but I am not one, so I don't know the particulars of them in that state. I will attempt to find out, and let you know.


Jeff

 

Brother Jeff, it is really good to see you back on the BaptistBoard. I will be looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Michael, probably 90% of the Progressive Primitive Baptists are in Georgia, but there are a few in other places. I have their 2000 association minutes. When I get home I will look and see what churches might be in Mississippi.