Primitive Baptists beliefs

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Typical Calvinist responce.... and white boys cant jump.:tongue3:

 

[rivers1222]

All to true....but I think it totally ignores the mercy of God above all things and it makes for a hard and fast religious society hell bent on being right vs seeing the mercyful side of our Lord....quite a ball of confusion when viewied incorrectly.

True EWF. And my apologies to Greek Tim for coming off abrasively. That's one of those buttons. I'll crawl back in my hole now.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Please don't...I value your point of view. Its high time folks like you speak out. THANKS:thumbs:

 

[righteousdude2]

Excerpt from Wiki:

the sentence stating "a man can die without knowing Jesus and still receive resurrection" is not accurate either. Primitive Baptists believe wholeheartedly that EVERY elect will know Christ through Regeneration. What Primitive Baptists DENY is that every elect person will hear the Gospel. There is an enormous difference between the two concepts.

So I would be interested to hear what "NEW SCHOOL" Baptists think about the above paragraph. Please advise. thanks.

Not to derail a good thread, but the name Primitive Baptist congers up the sight of a caveman carrying a Bible, and knocking potential converts over the head with his club.....:smilewinkgrin:

No back to your topic. I appreciate the topic as it helps me to know something about the beliefs of PBs. Still, I can't agree with only the elect going to eternity. I could never figure how a person would know for sure they were one of the elect without some physical sign to confirm their belief. If someone would explain this, I'd be grateful.

 

[righteousdude2]

Funny you mention the Indian... I am also of the PB brethren... Check the history what the white mans religion did to the Indian. Lets see the Indian believed in the Great White Spirit, Heaven (a happy hunting ground). Where did he get thajit belief?... Were Indians the people of God. Sounds to me like they are. The fool say in his heart there is no God!... Since God writes his law in the hearts and minds of his people an to me the Indians are his people before the white man interfered and told him he wasn't!... Check history and get on a different horse!

I can understand this to a degree. Thanks!

 

[JamesL]

The whole problem with trying to guess what God does with babies, or retarded people, etc is.....

God will not violate Hus own word, that's for sure. If a baby is born a sinner, and does not believe the gospel, that baby will be in hell when he dies. Scripture gives no back door, no wink at a baby based in his parents' faith, no exceptions.

Believe the gospel or perish.

But everyone here is starting with the false notion that babies are born sinners. If you get that wrong, then you're gonna be wrong in how God "handles" them.

DO NOT forget that we are made of two parts - spirit and body.

Corrupt body comes from Adam, sinless spirit comes from the breath of God.

Nobody nobody nobody is born with a corrupt spirit. That happens when we go our own way, become our own person, and determine for ourselves what is right and wrong.

Then we BECOME sinners. Every one of us, it is inevitable. Read Romans 1:17-25 to see this exchange from innocence to depravity.

So how does God "handle" someone who dies before he has the mental capacity to go his own way?

He doesn't have to "handle" them. They have not become corrupt yet.

 

[Rippon]

I don't blame stupid mortals....I just don't trust them to interpert scripture properly.

But you are among the race of 'stupid mortals" EW&F. How do you know if you interpret Scripture correctly?

All things are not revealed to us in the Word of God. The Lord has sound reasons for that. Just concentrate on the things that He has revealed (Deut.29:29).

Just rest in the fact that the Lord always does right --whether it lines up with what you think is right and fair does not matter.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But you are among the race of 'stupid mortals" EW&F. How do you know if you interpret Scripture correctly?

All things are not revealed to us in the Word of God. The Lord has sound reasons for that. Just concentrate on the things that He has revealed (Deut.29:29).

Just rest in the fact that the Lord always does right --whether it lines up with what you think is right and fair does not matter.

Well you tell that to all the souls who died in infantsy & those souls trapped in their own bodies without the faculties to even grasp simple thought much less the gospel that they are relegated to etermal hell fire.....and yes I will continue to believe that my God will do right beyond my flawed human understanding .....and I will continue to believe He operates off of mercy vs mechanical man made dogma.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The whole problem with trying to guess what God does with babies, or retarded people, etc is.....

God will not violate Hus own word, that's for sure. If a baby is born a sinner, and does not believe the gospel, that baby will be in hell when he dies. Scripture gives no back door, no wink at a baby based in his parents' faith, no exceptions.

Believe the gospel or perish.

But everyone here is starting with the false notion that babies are born sinners. If you get that wrong, then you're gonna be wrong in how God "handles" them.

DO NOT forget that we are made of two parts - spirit and body.

Corrupt body comes from Adam, sinless spirit comes from the breath of God.

Nobody nobody nobody is born with a corrupt spirit. That happens when we go our own way, become our own person, and determine for ourselves what is right and wrong.

Then we BECOME sinners. Every one of us, it is inevitable. Read Romans 1:17-25 to see this exchange from innocence to depravity.

So how does God "handle" someone who dies before he has the mental capacity to go his own way?

He doesn't have to "handle" them. They have not become corrupt yet.

Thats all bs James and you know it....and I really don't have the time to argue with another semi PELEGIAN & your dismissal of the doctrine trained of Total Inibility. To have to explain it again onlyinfurates me and you would just dismiss it anyway..... a pattern that Winman honed to a fine arguement and pov. That is your stance & you are welcome to it.....as for me, DoG is in scripture and the air I breathe.

 

[Rippon]

Well you tell that to all the souls who died in infantsy & those souls trapped in their own bodies without the faculties to even grasp simple thought much less the gospel

Deut 29:29 and all of Scripture is still true regardless of your examples.

that they are relegated to etermal hell fire

And just how did you manage to extract that from any of my comments? You did not read that from my comments at all. You just like to say nasty things. You are noted for that.

.....and yes I will continue to believe that my God will do right beyond my flawed human understanding .....and I will continue to believe He operates off of mercy vs mechanical man made dogma.

The majority of what I quoted of this section of your post is correct. The last part...not so much. I told you before that the Lord mercies who he decides to mercy and He hardens those who He wants to harden. Do you have a problem with that? Do you want to be the objector that Paul deals with in Romans 9? Or are you willing to cast your sentiments and anger aside and agree with Scripture?

You will have to flesh-out what you mean by man-made dogma. Sometimes when you disagree with the Bible you tend to color its doctrines with offensive language.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not to derail a good thread, but the name Primitive Baptist congers up the sight of a caveman carrying a Bible, and knocking potential converts over the head with his club.....:smilewinkgrin:

well that's a place of ignorance....one that you should correct.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Deut 29:29 and all of Scripture is still true regardless of your examples.

And just how did you manage to extract that from any of my comments? You did not read that from my comments at all. You just like to say nasty things. You are noted for that.

The majority of what I quoted of this section of your post is correct. The last part...not so much. I told you before that the Lord mercies who he decides to mercy and He hardens those who He wants to harden. Do you have a problem with that? Do you want to be the objector that Paul deals with in Romans 9? Or are you willing to cast your sentiments and anger aside and agree with Scripture?

You will have to flesh-out what you mean by man-made dogma. Sometimes when you disagree with the Bible you tend to color its doctrines with offensive language.

Wrong....I disagree with not one iota of scripture....but I disagree (again) with man made interpertations of gospel ....that is what I called dogma.

 

[Rippon]

Wrong....I disagree with not one iota of scripture

So you say. But your hackles have been raised when I continually point out Deut. 29:29 and Romans 9:14.

....but I disagree (again) with man made interpertations of gospel ....that is what I called dogma.

Be specific. What in particular do you regard as man-made dogma in this thread?

 

[JamesL]

Thats all bs James and you know it....and I really don't have the time to argue with another semi PELEGIAN & your dismissal of the doctrine trained of Total Inibility. To have to explain it again onlyinfurates me and you would just dismiss it anyway..... a pattern that Winman honed to a fine arguement and pov. That is your stance & you are welcome to it.....as for me, DoG is in scripture and the air I breathe.

It's not bs. And it has nothing to do with Pelagius. He also erroneously ignored the distinction between inner being and flesh.

And it has nothing to do with inability, which relates to someone who is already corrupt. Inability also argues from the false notion that faith is a choice and action.

I'm talking about the impossibility of Adam being able to corrupt the breath of God, which HE breathes into a man. See Zechariah 12:1 & Ecclesiastes 12:7

If Adam's one sin corrupted the inner being of all his descendants, then you have a corrupted Christ, who was made like us in all respects. See Hebrews 2:14

I'm talking about whether or not someone has gone his own way, which is not possible for a baby or someone who is severely retarded. See Romans 1:17-25


This one false doctrine of original sin carries with it too many difficulties. The Roman Catholic Church has made a practice of adding doctrines to try to relieve these difficulties, and Protestants have continued the tradition.

My view is substantiated by scripture, and has no difficulties which need to be ironed out through philosophical reasoning.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Wrong....I disagree with not one iota of scripture

So you say. But your hackles have been raised when I continually point out Deut. 29:29 and Romans 9:14.

Be specific. What in particular do you regard as man-made dogma in this thread?

Did I say I disagree with scripture??? I said Dogma. I will explain now that I have a keyboard rather than a phone to type on.

DOGMA : preach that one must hear and understand the gospel, actively obey the gospel, and manifestly believe on Christ, in order to become a child of God. To my understanding that is "MEANS" theology & not "SOVEREIGN GRACE THEOLOGY." From my prospective & it is the stance of the "Old School Baptists" that the great message of grace declares that one may be a recipient of the mercy of God without hearing the report of it through the gospel and even without fully understanding what has taken place in his heart. If infants, the feeble minded, and the heathen must hear the gospel preached by man and actively repent and believe the truth, then there is no hope for them. But since salvation is by the sovereign grace of God through the work of His Son, we know that He will save His own regardless of their circumstances in life (Rom. 8 :34-39; Rom. 11 :28; II Tim. 2 :13, 16-19) .

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's not bs. And it has nothing to do with Pelagius. He also erroneously ignored the distinction between inner being and flesh.

And it has nothing to do with inability, which relates to someone who is already corrupt. Inability also argues from the false notion that faith is a choice and action.

I'm talking about the impossibility of Adam being able to corrupt the breath of God, which HE breathes into a man. See Zechariah 12:1 & Ecclesiastes 12:7

If Adam's one sin corrupted the inner being of all his descendants, then you have a corrupted Christ, who was made like us in all respects. See Hebrews 2:14

I'm talking about whether or not someone has gone his own way, which is not possible for a baby or someone who is severely retarded. See Romans 1:17-25


This one false doctrine of original sin carries with it too many difficulties. The Roman Catholic Church has made a practice of adding doctrines to try to relieve these difficulties, and Protestants have continued the tradition.

My view is substantiated by scripture, and has no difficulties which need to be ironed out through philosophical reasoning.

Wow you dismiss total inability that easily? To tell you the truth, that underpinning of DoG making you far afield of my scriptural understanding and thus anathema to me.

 

[Greektim]

So you think they are all elect.....are you sure of that?

Also...would you include an adult who never hears about Christ?

Far from that. I think the criteria of God's elect is the same for all people, young or old, adults or infants, mentally competent or insane.

 

[Greektim]

Sure it changes your point. It's either infants and the mentally impaired are elected or they aren't, (no gospel, no salvation), your words. I usually sit back in the corners on here but I've watched that discussion played out and contradicted in the same paragraph so many times it wears thin.

No abrasion felt... that is a valid point. Let me consider how to respond before I post something here trite and unhelpful.

 

[Greektim]

True EWF. And my apologies to Greek Tim for coming off abrasively. That's one of those buttons. I'll crawl back in my hole now.

Again... no apologies necessary. You made a valid point. I need to articulate my response well.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Far from that. I think the criteria of God's elect is the same for all people, young or old, adults or infants, mentally competent or insane.

Then I will go so far as to say that if any individual is to be saved, it must by His mercy only.