Primitive vs. Old Regular

[old regular]

There are many Old Regular Baptist who have no major difference with Old Line Primitive's in doctrine, there is however differences in dress, and worship among some groups, the Regular Primitives line their hymns same as the old Regulars.Some differences over the non--elect do exist.Most Old Regulars believe that something was manifisted to the non--elect, such as Light, the Love of the Truth etc...... and because it was manifisted, the non --elect stand condemed, because of unbelief, they love darkness rather than light etc....Some would hold to all five points of Calvin but would reject being called a Calvinist.Currently you will find everything from Absolute Predestination of All things to Freewill being preached among Old Regular Baptist but the majority are somewhere in the middle. Most would not have much problem,listening to a Primitive Baptist preach.They are both Primitivist., and from the exact same associations. Bro. Mike Slone

 

[Brother Bob]

I guess there are some among us who believe in absolute predestination, but I don't happen to know or have heard them advocate it. I agree that "most" Old Regulars believe that the light was manifested to all men. Some loved darkness rather than light and stayed there and some took heed to the Spirit of that Light and believed and became led by that Light. I believe like Bro. Mike that most Primitive that I have heard, I could go along with all their sermon, but if you personally talk with them about scripture then we find out that we still differ on when the belief comes to a man, before or after being "born again". Most Primitive I have ever met in my lifetime will only say "all was predestinated" and that is the end of the discussion. They don't seem to want to discuss the scriptures because I guess they already know we don't agree.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Most Primitive I have ever met in my lifetime will only say "all was predestinated" and that is the end of the discussion.

Bro. Bob, I am curious. Do you mean they tell you "all was predestinated" as far as our salvation, or in the sense that every single event or thing that has ever happened, including my writing of this email, was predestinated?

James

 

[Brother Bob]

No, many I know are Hyper-Calvinist and believe if a truck runs over you that is how you were supposed to go. I don't know if they go so far as writing an email or not. They will not discuss it very much at all. A part of my family belonged to them but would never discuss the predestinated part too much. I can remember when I was a boy hearing them talk about if you were killed in a car accident, that was your way to go. I guess you can't change the fact that they "did" go that way. :laugh:

No, they believe in limited atonement.

Of course, they are like we are, and have their beliefs differ among themselves. All are not absoluters, but some in this area. Probably just a few of them but they are the ones who will talk. When I ask, even my friends that are Primitive ,if they believe such and such was predestinated, I get a "sharp" answer, so I drop the subject.

 

[amity]

Bro. Bob, I know some absoluters and they are lovely people and I think the world of the ones I know. But that is not what is believed by most PBs. I don't know about death, I sometimes think I see Biblical support for the belief that the hour and means of our death might be fixed, but I don't know any other mainline PB who agrees with me! And I do not beleive in absolute predestination, either.

I am estimating there is about a 20:1 ratio of limited predestinarian PBs to absolute predestinarian PBs? Maybe right in your neighborhood that is not the case, but country-wide.

 

[Sober_Baptist]

That 20 to 1 sounds about right to me also, for what it's worth.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I don't know about death, I sometimes think I see Biblical support for the belief that the hour and means of our death might be fixed, but I don't know any other mainline PB who agrees with me!

I agree with you, sis. So now you know one who does. Whether I'm mainline or not depends on how many PB's have gone on to the missionism side.

 

[Jeff Weaver]

Add another PB to those who believe the day and hour of death is fixed from all eternity.

 

[Brother Bob]

amity, I consider them all my brothers and sisters in Christ, and they will tell you that I love them all and treat them the same as I would any Old Regular Baptist, and they give me the same respect as they give their own Elders, including Elder to Elder. Some of Paul's writings are very hard to understand and I can see where we can differ on some of them. I sure don't put myself above any of them. I figure the Lord will straighten us all out one day. On death, I know the Lord said I will take your breath and you will die, but I keep thinking on the scripture where He said, fear not men who can only destroy the body. Of course the scripture also say that there is a time to live and a time to die. There are other scripture that says we can shorten our days or lengthen them, so we must have a set time but by our lives we must be able to change that time. Also, God lengthen out Hezekiah's life 15 years and I honestly believe He lengthened out mine.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I believe there is an apointed time for man to die. but believe Like brother Bob God can add to or take from it. Like in Ephesians 6:1-3 about children to obey and honor parents that thou mayest live long on the earth. and Proverbs 3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace , shall they add to thee. Also I think there is one that say the wicked shall not live out half their days.

And as far as the Birth and Believing I would look at 1john 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: That it is by His power not mans.

as far as prim. vs. old reg. i would say old regs 14 vs. prim. 13 in overtime.:laugh:

 

[Virginia ORB]

Bro. Bob, I know some absoluters and they are lovely people and I think the world of the ones I know. But that is not what is believed by most PBs. I don't know about death, I sometimes think I see Biblical support for the belief that the hour and means of our death might be fixed, but I don't know any other mainline PB who agrees with me! And I do not beleive in absolute predestination, either.

I am estimating there is about a 20:1 ratio of limited predestinarian PBs to absolute predestinarian PBs? Maybe right in your neighborhood that is not the case, but country-wide.

I know most of the PB churches here in Southwest Virginia are beleive in absolute predestination. These churches are in the Sandlick (VA), Washington District, and Mates Creek Associations. I don't know a whole lot about PB churches in other parts of the country.

The PB churches I've visited in the Sandlick (VA) line-out songs and use almost the same tunes as we do. This would be right condsidering most ORB churches in Virginia came from splits from the Washington District in the 1890's over the predestination doctrine.

 

[Brother Bob]

as far as prim. vs. old reg. i would say old regs 14 vs. prim. 13 in overtime.:laugh:

close one.

 

[Jeff Weaver]

I know most of the PB churches here in Southwest Virginia are beleive in absolute predestination. These churches are in the Sandlick (VA), Washington District, and Mates Creek Associations. I don't know a whole lot about PB churches in other parts of the country..

Actually Bro. Keith, this isn't correct. Most here in SWVA are believers in limitied predestination.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

as far as prim. vs. old reg. i would say old regs 14 vs. prim. 13 in overtime.:laugh:

Oh yeah? Well, we outnumber you, so we can beat you up.:thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

I am going to ask some of the Mate's Creek. I go to the Gymn with some of their brothers and sisters three days a week and when I get up enough courage, I am going to ask them. As I said before, that give a real quick answer when asked about predestination and makes me afraid for our friendship, so I don't ask very much.

Now, boy oh boy if they were only on BB. :laugh:

 

[Jeff Weaver]

Bro.Bob

There are two factions of the Mates Creek, the larger one moderated by Randall Thornsbury holds to a view of limited predestination. A much smaller faction holds to absolute predestination of all things.

Jeff Weaver

 

[Brother Bob]

Randall Thornsbury is my first cousin. His father and my mother were brother and sister. His brother Larry came to an Old Regular church Sunday before last. The ones I know then are of the limited predestination.

Where is the other faction of Mates Creek located. I know this one is here in Eastern KY. Pike County

 

[Jeff Weaver]

Where is the other faction of Mates Creek located. I know this one is here in Eastern KY. Pike County

There is a two church association in Pike County using the name Mates Creek holding to absolute predestination. In the county toward Prestonsburg. I will have to call my friend who attends there to get the name of the place, but in western end of the county, mailing address is Pikeville.

 

[Brother Bob]

There is a two church association in Pike County using the name Mates Creek holding to absolute predestination. In the county toward Prestonsburg. I will have to call my friend who attends there to get the name of the place, but in western end of the county, mailing address is Pikeville.

There is a Primitive Baptist up at Stone, KY area which has a small number and a person by the name of John Ball is their moderator. I don't think they are a part of the Randall Thornsbury group and I have heard they are "very strong", so they could be one of them. They did purchase some of my books though and are very nice people. One was a manager of the local Food City, a produce manager.

 

[Virginia ORB]

Actually Bro. Keith, this isn't correct. Most here in SWVA are believers in limitied predestination.

o.k., it may be just the ones I've attended. Could you list the associations that are believers in limitied predestination?