Primitive vs. Old Regular

[Jeff Weaver]

o.k., it may be just the ones I've attended. Could you list the associations that are believers in limitied predestination?

Here we go

Those who are considered limited predestinarian:

In Virginia
Washington District (Wise, Russell, Dickenson, Buchanan Counties)
Sandlick District (Wise, Russell, Dickenson, Buchanan Counties)
St. Clair District (Washington & Smyth Counties)

In Kentucky:
Mates Creek District (Pike County)
Union (Letcher County)
Powell's Valley (Southeast Corner and in Northeast Tennessee)

Those considered to be absolute predestinarian:

In West Virginia
Elkhorn
Pocatalico
Tygart's Valley River

In Kentucky:
Mates Creek (one small faction)

In Virginia
New River District (Carroll/Floyd Counties)
Pigg River
Staunton River
Smith River

Those considered to the Universalists:

Stony Creek (upper east Tennessee and Scott Co., VA now extinct)
Three Forks of Powell's River (Lee and Wise Counties now extinct)
Old Constitutional Washington Association (Wise, Russell, Buchanan, Dickenson counties, and a couple of church in NE Tennessee)
Elkhorn Association (Southern West Virginia - two factions)
Union (Letcher County, Kentucky)

There is also a Union ORB Association which has the same roots as the two Primitive Baptist Union Associations.

Hope it helps.

Jeff

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I say this as a Primitive Baptist elder, with a Old Regular Baptist grandfather who was a minister among them.

I was wandering what your grandfather's beliefs were compared to your own. major differences or minor. Also since you have that old regular background do you hold to any points that say a primitive may not?

 

[Bro. James Reed]

I was wandering what your grandfather's beliefs were compared to your own. major differences or minor. Also since you have that old regular background do you hold to any points that say a primitive may not?

Yes. He's a Democrat, and he's a skinny preacher. Both could get you in trouble down here.:laugh:

Just kidding, my brother.:wavey:

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

well i started off democrat from my dad who was an auto worker, then i shifted towards republican then decided as a christian i shouldn't be looking to these for a better life or better nation. Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. As God's people I don't think we need to look to them. We are not to be entangled with the affairs of this world and I think that is what it is, affairs of this world. We are instructed to do our jobs not with eye service but as doing it unto the Lord. pay our taxes, not to cause riot or be unruley live a quiet and peaceful life as much a possible. if some want to vote it doesn't much matter to me but when they start campaigning for this one or that one with their bumber stickers and hold much conversation on it I think it takes from a Goldly conversation that would be much more uplifting among God's people. Besides I think the men of power on both sides shake hands with that secret handshake anyhow.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

well i started off democrat from my dad who was an auto worker, then i shifted towards republican then decided as a christian i shouldn't be looking to these for a better life or better nation. Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. As God's people I don't think we need to look to them. We are not to be entangled with the affairs of this world and I think that is what it is, affairs of this world. We are instructed to do our jobs not with eye service but as doing it unto the Lord. pay our taxes, not to cause riot or be unruley live a quiet and peaceful life as much a possible. if some want to vote it doesn't much matter to me but when they start campaigning for this one or that one with their bumber stickers and hold much conversation on it I think it takes from a Goldly conversation that would be much more uplifting among God's people. Besides I think the men of power on both sides shake hands with that secret handshake anyhow.

I think you have everything pegged quite well.

I hope I didn't scare Bro. Jeff from the thread with my comment. Down here though, if you are a preacher and you don't vote Republican, a lot of people look at you funny. I got some looks when I first started voicing my support of Kinky Friedman, so I kind of hushed up a bit before and after the election at church, which was no easy task for me.:laugh:

On topic, why is it, I wonder, why singing exists in the way it does for OR/PB churches in Appalachia? Is this type of singing found in other churches as well in that area? I'm wondering if it's a geographic and a hereditary (Old Regular/Primitive) thing, or just geographic?

Even the "lining out" part sounds different between our region and y'alls.

 

[Brother Bob]

You have to know how to do politics. First you must realize that they are all crooks, so you do your best to get your crook in office, or at least that is what I do. They all say to me, "how are you Bro Bob". Man does it make me feel good knowing I got my crook at the reigns.

 

[Jeff Weaver]

I was wandering what your grandfather's beliefs were compared to your own. major differences or minor. Also since you have that old regular background do you hold to any points that say a primitive may not?

Sorry for being slow answering. My eyes are failing, and I ususally stay in the games forum where doesn't take much effort to participate.

Well, great-grandpa died the day before I was born, so I don't remember him, but my fathers family were in the Old Regular world. My patermal grandmother was his daughter, and from all accounts, just as well I didn't know him, he was a cantankerous character. My mothers family were/are Primitives and Democrats.

As for beliefs, great-grandpa was all over the place with his beliefs according to my dad, who heard him preach quite often. We would have had serious disagreements over Calvinism. Other than that, from what I have heard we would have been pretty much in agreement on most issues, but then again, most Christians will agree on 80-90 % of issues. I doubt we would agree on all the minor points, but then again, I never heard some of his beliefs discussed, such as issues of dress. We would have agreed on eschatology, both being amil. We would have agreed on hymns vs instrumental music in church.

As for being skinny, he was rotund, and I am not. :smilewinkgrin: Of course I am too skinny for my height, 6'2" and weigh about 142. Of course I have been heavier in times past, before diabetes took over my life.

For politics. yes I am a Democrat and a democrat. I am a child of the Vietnam and Watergate eras. That probably has a lot to do with that. Almost all Primitive Baptists in my area are Democrats and democrats. Before I got sick, I worked for the Federal goverment for many years, for Republicans and Democrats. From my personal experience, I find Democrats in office to be far more honest. Of course there are exceptions.

So, to get back to the question, I suspect the biggest difference between myself and great-grandpa would be the calvinism thing.

Oh, and I am no where as long-winded as he was reported to be.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

thanks brother Weaver

On topic, why is it, I wonder, why singing exists in the way it does for OR/PB churches in Appalachia? Is this type of singing found in other churches as well in that area? I'm wondering if it's a geographic and a hereditary (Old Regular/Primitive) thing, or just geographic?

Even the "lining out" part sounds different between our region and y'alls.

are you talking about the lining out or just the way we do it, well I am in ohio but its a eastern ky migration, you all line out down in Texas too so maybe you meant on how its done in appalachia. Alot of Black primitives line out, The Welsch Tract Church in Delaware I believe lines out and the Presbyterian church in the Highlands of Scotland line out in Gaelic, and the Omish also line out in Hi-German.

 

[Virginia ORB]

On topic, why is it, I wonder, why singing exists in the way it does for OR/PB churches in Appalachia? Is this type of singing found in other churches as well in that area? I'm wondering if it's a geographic and a hereditary (Old Regular/Primitive) thing, or just geographic?

Even the "lining out" part sounds different between our region and y'alls.

Brother James, In Southwest VA, lined-out singing almost exclusively among the Primitives and Old Regulars. I have heard of a few older Freewill churches doing it, but that is rare. I think it started out being a geographic thing, because of the isolation here in the Appalachians. Now, I think it is traditional. In Eastern Kentucky and West Virginia, the Uniteds also line sing.

 

[Brother Bob]

Lined out singing is older than note singing. It didn't start here in Appalachian. It came across the waters when America was settled. What I have read the "note" singing was not very well recieved in the churches at first.

 

[Virginia ORB]

Lined out singing is older than note singing. It didn't start here in Appalachian. It came across the waters when America was settled. What I have read the "note" singing was not very well recieved in the churches at first.

Yes, I should've noted that line singing has persisted in the Appalachians because of geographical isolation first and handed-down tradition later. It started it in Scotland in the 1600's when many people were illiterate and was brought over to the colonies by immigrants.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

well I would not just credit its start in Scotland, as the Omish do it as well in a hi-german dialect. And the presbyterians i believe is a direct break from the Catholic church that used an organ in singing as early as 800s A.D. But the interest that has been coming to the surface among universitys will turn up more info on it i hope. what I like about it though is it has a mournful sound, the sound of the Dove. and another thing to play music with it is not even optional.

 

[old regular]

Lined Singing

Lined Singing was done in the Jewish Church long before the gentiles, they still have cantors today, they used to call out the psalms of David in this manner. The early church kept the practice.In England there was much controversy about the singing of hymns peroid, while the Welsh maintained the practice. Bro.Mike