Private Bible study question

[JesusFan]

I agree that personal responsibility should complement rather than contradict what the pastor is teaching. But that is the point I am making. We are responsible to study to see if what the pastor is teaching is actually biblical.

A person may attend a particular church but that does not mean that what they are teaching is in fact biblical. False teaching is false teaching no matter how big the church is or how well respected the pastor is.

As you rightly said the elders & pastor are not infallible.

"How do you balance personal study with the church’s role in your view?" Simple, I trust the word of God as the final authority. The bible is not a book of mysteries as some seem to think. Are there some things that are hard to understand, sure. But that is why we are to study.

I think one of the worst things to happen to the church was when the body stopped studying for themselves and depended upon the ones up front to tell them what to think. Think of the RCC.

You referred to the LBCF which I see as a man-made confession that promotes error in some of it teachings. While confessions can be useful they are not scripture or to be treated as such although some people do just that.

2 extremes to avoid regarding confessions and creeds, one would be to see them as no to be used at all, while other would be to place them nearly on par with scripturas themselves

 

[Silverhair]

Are not there though many times doctrines being taught based upon "interpretation", such as in spiritual gifts, Calvinism or not, etc?

I grew up being taught to trust what the word of God said. I have listened to many different pastors over my life and I still test what they say with what the bible says.

 

[Silverhair]

2 extremes to avoid regarding confessions and creeds, one would be to see them as no to be used at all, while other would be to place them nearly on par with scripturas themselves

I am not saying that you ignore confessions, creeds or the use of commentaries. What I am saying is that those were written by men who have a bias so that needs to be understood.

 

[Tenchi]

Hello all, Im a new Baptist member. We have been having weekly bible studies, just a few of us, to "forsake not the assembling together" and also to have some satellite studies in different friends homes, and geographic locations, as well as "rightly dividing the word of truth". Our friend who is usually organizing the studies was recently asked by someone in the church "who authorized him to conduct bible studies", and also "why do you want to study outside of the church, you have everything here". I was just wondering if it is normal within the Baptist circle to try and control our activities outside of church, or is this just an unusual "one-off" situation. I love the congregation and the Pastor, but it seems discomforting to me that some would try and discourage us from studying. It's not easy to drive to the church every time we want to crack open our bibles together. Any perspectives appreciated.

Well, if the Bible study is directly associated with the church, perhaps offered as a ministry of the church, then the Elders/Pastors/Overseers of that church have the God-given responsibility to order what is taught in the study and by whom (Ac. 20:28-31; 2 Ti. 1:2-5; Tit. 1:6-11, etc.). If, instead, the study is a sort of "para-church" thing, or just a group of fellow believers associating together privately and informally, then church leaders (Elder/Pastors/Overseers) are straining their responsibilities and spiritual authority a fair bit if they try to control these events.

However, since Elders/Pastors/Overseers are charged with guarding their "flocks" against false doctrine and teachers by God, they ought, I think, to err on the side of excess vigilance in doing so. A blase, do-as-you-like Pastor is a poor protector of his congregation and will have a well-leavened church in short order (1 Co. 5:6; Ga. 5:9), as well as "sheep" that are wounded and limping from the many "wolves" that bite and devour them with doctrinal error.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Interesting question would be since we as Baptists honor individual read and interpretations of the Scriptures for each believer, are we not able to hold views at times differing from Pastors and Elders, such as in areas of Eschatology? Like in a strong pretrib premil believing church, but hold to A Mil?

Don't most churches just want you to keep from teaching against what they would hold to be main doctrines... End times theories I don't think are considered main teachings for most churches.

Main doctrinal teachings would include everything that effects salvation, in that churches opinion. (For example, a believers, full immersion baptism church might oppose their members preaching in favor of infant sprinkling, with nary a drop of water again, all over town and to the other church members of that church)

Things like whether a person is dispensationalist or amillennial in their eschatology is likely not a salvific issue to very many churches.

If someone goes to a church and does disagree with a main doctrine the church holds to, the only impetus would be not to teach against their doctrines while in Church membership.

You don't have to teach nonsense, or things you don't legitimately believe, but if you're a member of a church you would want to at least respect that's what they believe right? And then be kind enough not to dispute their faith while a member there.

Questioning? Yes.

Learning why they hold their positions verses yours? Yes ..

Determining whether they are a church with sound, Scriptural teachings? Yes.

Determining to respect the beliefs of whatever church you join or avoid joining it? Yes ..

 

[Hazelelponi]

2 extremes to avoid regarding confessions and creeds, one would be to see them as no to be used at all, while other would be to place them nearly on par with scripturas themselves

I only use them online. My church doesn't use the creeds but super handy people with computers attached all the relevant scriptures to the creeds so it's helpful to see the historical positions the church held and where in Scripture they derived those beliefs from, and be able to have a handy link to share.

It's an appeal to the historical church and showing their Scriptural positions, instead of appealing to nameless faceless person online with no authority.

 

[Silverhair]

If someone goes to a church and does disagree with a main doctrine the church holds to, the only impetus would be not to teach against their doctrines while in Church membership.

You don't have to teach nonsense, or things you don't legitimately believe, but if you're a member of a church you would want to at least respect that's what they believe right? And then be kind enough not to dispute their faith while a member there.

Questioning? Yes.

Learning why they hold their positions verses yours? Yes ..

Determining whether they are a church with sound, Scriptural teachings? Yes.

Determining to respect the beliefs of whatever church you join? Yes ..

If a person is attending a church where they disagree with the main doctrine then you have to ask why are they attending that church? Was the teaching sound and then started to slip under new leadership.

The reality is that false doctrine does not spring up over night. Is the slow creep of bad teaching over time. That is why we are to study the bible and be willing to speak up when we hear errant teaching.

A church may have what they consider valid reasons for holding to the views they have but that does not mean they are biblical.

 

[JesusFan]

I am not saying that you ignore confessions, creeds or the use of commentaries. What I am saying is that those were written by men who have a bias so that needs to be understood.

They are useful tools, but not inspired scriptures

 

[JesusFan]

Well, if the Bible study is directly associated with the church, perhaps offered as a ministry of the church, then the Elders/Pastors/Overseers of that church have the God-given responsibility to order what is taught in the study and by whom (Ac. 20:28-31; 2 Ti. 1:2-5; Tit. 1:6-11, etc.). If, instead, the study is a sort of "para-church" thing, or just a group of fellow believers associating together privately and informally, then church leaders (Elder/Pastors/Overseers) are straining their responsibilities and spiritual authority a fair bit if they try to control these events.

However, since Elders/Pastors/Overseers are charged with guarding their "flocks" against false doctrine and teachers by God, they ought, I think, to err on the side of excess vigilance in doing so. A blase, do-as-you-like Pastor is a poor protector of his congregation and will have a well-leavened church in short order (1 Co. 5:6; Ga. 5:9), as well as "sheep" that are wounded and limping from the many "wolves" that bite and devour them with doctrinal error.

That is why really like my church way of dealing with cell groups and their bible studies, as have a large collection of approved studies that can be "checked out" from the church library for use

 

[JesusFan]

I only use them online. My church doesn't use the creeds but super handy people with computers attached all the relevant scriptures to the creeds so it's helpful to see the historical positions the church held and where in Scripture they derived those beliefs from, and be able to have a handy link to share.

It's an appeal to the historical church and showing their Scriptural positions, instead of appealing to nameless faceless person online with no authority.

They can be very helpful to newly saved, as the relevant scripture references are linked to each dpctrine listed in the confession, and also can be used as the go too what we believe and hold statement

 

[Silverhair]

I only use them online. My church doesn't use the creeds but super handy people with computers attached all the relevant scriptures to the creeds so it's helpful to see the historical positions the church held and where in Scripture they derived those beliefs from, and be able to have a handy link to share.

It's an appeal to the historical church and showing their Scriptural positions, instead of appealing to nameless faceless person online with no authority.

But you should always study those "relevant" verses in context. Verses have been pulled out of context by cults and false teachers in the past and still do so.

It is still the responsibility of the believer to do his/her study. We can not leave it to others to tell us what the bible says.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If a person is attending a church where they disagree with the main doctrine then you have to ask why are they attending that church?

That's what I said, and was why I asked why be a a member of a church with false teachers in the first place.

I take it you agree with me then, at least generally...

Was the teaching sound and then started to slip under new leadership.

The reality is that false doctrine does not spring up over night. Is the slow creep of bad teaching over time. That is why we are to study the bible and be willing to speak up when we hear errant teaching.

A church may have what they consider valid reasons for holding to the views they have but that does not mean they are biblical.

 

[JesusFan]

Don't most churches just want you to keep from teaching against what they would hold to be main doctrines... End times theories I don't think are considered main teachings for most churches.

Main doctrinal teachings would include everything that effects salvation, in that churches opinion. (For example, a believers, full immersion baptism church might oppose their members preaching in favor of infant sprinkling, with nary a drop of water again, all over town and to the other church members of that church)

Things like whether a person is dispensationalist or amillennial in their eschatology is likely not a salvific issue to very many churches.

If someone goes to a church and does disagree with a main doctrine the church holds to, the only impetus would be not to teach against their doctrines while in Church membership.

You don't have to teach nonsense, or things you don't legitimately believe, but if you're a member of a church you would want to at least respect that's what they believe right? And then be kind enough not to dispute their faith while a member there.

Questioning? Yes.

Learning why they hold their positions verses yours? Yes ..

Determining whether they are a church with sound, Scriptural teachings? Yes.

Determining to respect the beliefs of whatever church you join or avoid joining it? Yes ..

A Lot will depend on just how strictly the spiritual leadership in any given local Baptist church enforces their statement of beliefs, as they might see it as just pretrib premil, might just see it as free will or Calvinist, might just see it as strict ending of spiritual gifts or their contiuing into today, Problem is when someone takes upon themselves to try to reform and change that church view and cause division, as no one should go into say a KJVO church and promote Nas as main translation to now be using

 

[Hazelelponi]

A Lot will depend on just how strictly the spiritual leadership in any given local Baptist church enforces their statement of beliefs, as they might see it as just pretrib premil, might just see it as free will or Calvinist, might just see it as strict ending of spiritual gifts or their contiuing into today, Problem is when someone takes upon themselves to try to reform and change that church view and cause division, as no one should go into say a KJVO church and promote Nas as main translation to now be using

Okay cool... and yes I agree.

 

[Hazelelponi]

A Lot will depend on just how strictly the spiritual leadership in any given local Baptist church enforces their statement of beliefs, as they might see it as just pretrib premil, might just see it as free will or Calvinist, might just see it as strict ending of spiritual gifts or their contiuing into today, Problem is when someone takes upon themselves to try to reform and change that church view and cause division, as no one should go into say a KJVO church and promote Nas as main translation to now be using

You know I'm glad you can understand me. I think you're alone... Hahaha

 

[Silverhair]

That's what I said, and was why I asked why be a a member of a church with false teachers in the first place.

I take it you agree with me then, at least generally...

I think you missed my point.

False teaching can creep into any church and that is why we as Christians are to study the bible and compare what the leaders are saying with scripture.

Would you not agree?

 

[Silverhair]

You know I'm glad you can understand me. I think you're alone... Hahaha

I understand what you are saying I just think we should be vigilant lest false teaching creep into the body. Something that we are warned about in scripture.

 

[Tenchi]

That is why really like my church way of dealing with cell groups and their bible studies, as have a large collection of approved studies that can be "checked out" from the church library for use

I once had all the ministry leads at my church sit with me and explain to me what they were doing in their various ministries (I was an Elder in the church, you see). After they had all offered a summary of their ministries, I asked them how they determined if they were succeeding in what they were doing. They were all surprised by my question and had little to offer in response. I was surprised myself at their surprise and asked them why they had been operating without any means of evaluating if they were doing well in their respective ministries. It's just how things had always been done, they told me.

That there was a ministry seemed to be the important thing, not that it was necessarily achieving a godly end. Because this was so, there were a number of ministry leads whose walk with God was not good. All that had been required for their leading a particular ministry was their willingness to do so and no obvious, gross sin disqualifying them. As you can imagine, the ministries were rife with small, subtle seeds of false and carnal teaching, and had drifted into being a lot of "sound and fury signifying nothing" spiritually.

I wouldn't, then, be keen to have a bunch of approved Bible studies that just anyone in the church can take out and use in a sort of ad hoc study they lead on their own. Too often, at least in my experience, this is the "blind leading the blind," involving a lot of erroneous "this is what I think" discussion and the elevation of personal feeling and experience above the declaration of God's word.

 

[Silverhair]

I once had all the ministry leads at my church sit with me and explain to me what they were doing in their various ministries (I was an Elder in the church, you see). After they had all offered a summary of their ministries, I asked them how they determined if they were succeeding in what they were doing. They were all surprised by my question and had little to offer in response. I was surprised myself at their surprise and asked them why they had been operating without any means of evaluating if they were doing well in their respective ministries. It's just how things had always been done, they told me.

That there was a ministry seemed to be the important thing, not that it was necessarily achieving a godly end. Because this was so, there were a number of ministry leads whose walk with God was not good. All that had been required for their leading a particular ministry was their willingness to do so and no obvious, gross sin disqualifying them. As you can imagine, the ministries were rife with small, subtle seeds of false and carnal teaching, and had drifted into being a lot of "sound and fury signifying nothing" spiritually.

I wouldn't, then, be keen to have a bunch of approved Bible studies that just anyone in the church can take out and use in a sort of ad hoc study they lead on their own. Too often, at least in my experience, this is the "blind leading the blind," involving a lot of erroneous "this is what I think" discussion and the elevation of personal feeling and experience above the declaration of God's word.

Bible study based on what the bible actually says and not on what we want the bible to say is not as you say "ad hoc". While "approved Bible studies" can be useful they are still just some persons understanding of what the bible says or means. Many times people will just trust what is in those books and not do the hard work of actual bible study.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think you missed my point.

False teaching can creep into any church and that is why we as Christians are to study the bible and compare what the leaders are saying with scripture.

Would you not agree?

I think you missed my point.

False teaching can creep into any church and that is why we as Christians are to study the bible and compare what the leaders are saying with scripture.

Would you not agree?

Yes I would agree.

I've only been Christian 10 years.. This is my first online Baptist experience. When I was first saved I visited a few churches before joining one, not all of them Baptist because I wanted to know what was taught and something of the differences

I bet that's why I look at it from the outside coming in - what a church is presently, as opposed to what it might have once been, or what it could potentially become

Either way, you probably have to deal with the present, whether there's falsehoods taught or not, and then what an appropriate response might be. Certainly we won't all agree on everything, so how important is the disagreement?