Private interpretation of prophecy relating to Israel

[church mouse guy]

I think you mean that the USA pulled $200 million from the people of Gaza, preventing the rebuilding of homes, schools, hospitals, power stations, water supply, sewage works, etc, all destroyed by Israeli bombing of a defenceless population.

But to return to the thread -
There is of course a lot of support in the OC Scriptures for the return of Israel to the promised land, including rebuilding the temple & resuming sacrificial worship, & reallocating the land among the 12 tribes.

The problem is that there is NO support for the return of Israel to the promised land in the NC Scriptures. Romans 11 speaks of salvation for Jews who do not continue in unbelief. Salvation of Jews down the millennia since Pentecost is not in doubt.

Instead there is a very clear emphasis of the fulfilment of the promises to Abraham through his Seed, the LORD Jesus Christ, with all repentant sinners counted as Abraham's seed, & heirs according to the promise. As Paul writes -

Gal. 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.​

That means that the literal interpretation of OC prophecy to teach the return of Israel to the land is contrary to the teaching of Jesus & his Apostles, & is therefore private interpretation.

Note the context of 2 Peter 1:20

16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eye-witnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honour and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, ‘This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.’ 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.​

Peter is focusing on the Lord Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of prophecy. It's his second letter. In the first he writes -

1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.​

Valid interpretation of prophecy focuses on the Lord Jesus Christ & the Gospel, & all the redeemed, regardless of ethnicity, NOT on the nation of Israel.

The glorious & perfect fulfilment of ALL prophecy will be after Jesus returns for resurrection & judgment & establishes the NH&NE.

Nothing about what you are saying, but it is all strange to me because I came from mainstream Protestantism and then became an Evangelical and my main difference with Fundamentalism is church polity. So your European (I guess) explanations just don't make sense to me. For one thing, I don't really worry about the New Testament and Israel on the land because I think that it is covered in Revelation. Secondly, I agree with American policy since 1948 on Israel (President Harry S. Truman was a Southern Baptist, an Evangelical). I also support what Trump has done recently and think that it should have been done a long time ago. And since I believe in total depravity, I don't worry about good Jews and bad Jews, etc. I think that the British dropped the ball a long time ago but I have read that it was the army that would not obey General Allenby. But the royal family just seems stuffy to me in their policy about Prince William's trip to Israel and what he visited when he was there, but it doesn't affect me one bit. As Dick Morris said in the video that I linked above--and he is a Jew--what would the Arabs do if they got their hands on Israel, turn it into an agrarian society of backward people with a backward religion and a backward human rights that marries little girls to old men after FGM on the little girls? Look how backward the Pakistanis are. They are just as backward in this country as they are in yours. Islam says that the Kaaba sits on a location chosen by Adam and Eve, an absolute lie because Noah's Flood totally destroyed the old world that once was and that is a scientific fact. Islam is some sort of Arab voodoo.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think you mean that the USA pulled $200 million from the people of Gaza, preventing the rebuilding of homes, schools, hospitals, power stations, water supply, sewage works, etc, all destroyed by Israeli bombing of a defenceless population.

Well if that is the case, and its not, then maybe a defenseless population shouldn't be bombing and terrorizing a nation that can destroy their buildings, homes, etc.

Talk about historical revisionism. Good grief.

 

[Revmitchell]

Haley calls for reform at UNRWA


.....Haley addressed the recent fund cuts, referring to the cuts as as “defunding those things that are not helpful to us or in the United States interest,” she stated “The countries that we give money to, do they believe what we believe? Are they still actually wanting to be our partner and work with us? If they are not, and they’re shouting “Death to America”, why would we give them a single penny?”

Reports this week also claim the United States is set to reject the Palestinian’s “right of return” and the UNRWA’s definition of Palestinian refugees, combatting the inflated number of Palestinian refugees claimed by the United Nations. Of the UN’s claim of over 5.3 million Palestinian refugees, only half a million would be recognized.

On the Palestinian right of return, Haley stated Tuesday “I absolutely think we have to look at right of return,” adding that if the UNRWA was to reform and “change the number of refugees to an accurate account, we will look back at partnering them”.


Haley calls for reform at UNRWA

 

[Yeshua1]

Well if that is the case, and its not, then maybe a defenseless population shouldn't be bombing and terrorizing a nation that can destroy their buildings, homes, etc.

Talk about historical revisionism. Good grief.

He really is confused about the Jewish people, as last time I checked, Hitler declared Genocide on them , not the other way around, and Islam wants to destroy them all, and not other way around!

 

[Revmitchell]

He really is confused about the Jewish people, as last time I checked, Hitler declared Genocide on them , not the other way around, and Islam wants to destroy them all, and not other way around!

Well he is a preterist soooo....kind of says it all.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well he is a preterist soooo....kind of says it all.

I could handle an A Mil position, but not full blown pret!

 

[Revmitchell]

I could handle an A Mil position, but not full blown pret!

Not full not partial at all its all crazy

 

[Yeshua1]

Not full not partial at all its all crazy

Agree wit that, as it makes Biblcal prophecy into swiss cheese!

 

[Covenanter]

8 replies & not a single Scripture cited. It's all private opinions - not even an attempt at private interpretation.

Nothing about what you are saying, but it is all strange to me because I came from mainstream Protestantism and then became an Evangelical and my main difference with Fundamentalism is church polity. So your European (I guess) explanations just don't make sense to me. For one thing, I don't really worry about the New Testament and Israel on the land because I think that it is covered in Revelation. Secondly, I agree with American policy since 1948 on Israel (President Harry S. Truman was a Southern Baptist, an Evangelical). I also support what Trump has done recently and think that it should have been done a long time ago. And since I believe in total depravity, I don't worry about good Jews and bad Jews, etc. I think that the British dropped the ball a long time ago but I have read that it was the army that would not obey General Allenby. But the royal family just seems stuffy to me in their policy about Prince William's trip to Israel and what he visited when he was there, but it doesn't affect me one bit. As Dick Morris said in the video that I linked above--and he is a Jew--what would the Arabs do if they got their hands on Israel, turn it into an agrarian society of backward people with a backward religion and a backward human rights that marries little girls to old men after FGM on the little girls? Look how backward the Pakistanis are. They are just as backward in this country as they are in yours. Islam says that the Kaaba sits on a location chosen by Adam and Eve, an absolute lie because Noah's Flood totally destroyed the old world that once was and that is a scientific fact. Islam is some sort of Arab voodoo.

Well if that is the case, and its not, then maybe a defenseless population shouldn't be bombing and terrorizing a nation that can destroy their buildings, homes, etc.

Talk about historical revisionism. Good grief.

Haley calls for reform at UNRWA


.....Haley addressed the recent fund cuts, referring to the cuts as as “defunding those things that are not helpful to us or in the United States interest,” she stated “The countries that we give money to, do they believe what we believe? Are they still actually wanting to be our partner and work with us? If they are not, and they’re shouting “Death to America”, why would we give them a single penny?”

Reports this week also claim the United States is set to reject the Palestinian’s “right of return” and the UNRWA’s definition of Palestinian refugees, combatting the inflated number of Palestinian refugees claimed by the United Nations. Of the UN’s claim of over 5.3 million Palestinian refugees, only half a million would be recognized.

On the Palestinian right of return, Haley stated Tuesday “I absolutely think we have to look at right of return,” adding that if the UNRWA was to reform and “change the number of refugees to an accurate account, we will look back at partnering them”.


Haley calls for reform at UNRWA

He really is confused about the Jewish people, as last time I checked, Hitler declared Genocide on them , not the other way around, and Islam wants to destroy them all, and not other way around!

Well he is a preterist soooo....kind of says it all.

I could handle an A Mil position, but not full blown pret!

Not full not partial at all its all crazy

Agree wit that, as it makes Biblcal prophecy into swiss cheese!

 

[church mouse guy]

Well, I'll give you some Scripture that proves that Islam is lying when they say that Adam and Eve picked the spot for the Kaaba in Mecca. We know from science that what was one continent is now seven continents and parts of the British Isles match up with the Appalachian Mountains in North America, for example, so we know the world is changed beyond recognition.

2 Peter 3:4-6 (KJV) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

 

[Covenanter]

Well, I'll give you some Scripture that proves that Islam is lying when they say that Adam and Eve picked the spot for the Kaaba in Mecca. We know from science that what was one continent is now seven continents and parts of the British Isles match up with the Appalachian Mountains in North America, for example, so we know the world is changed beyond recognition.

2 Peter 3:4-6 (KJV) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Agreed; Mohammed is a prime example of one giving private interpretations, amounting to falsification of Scripture. We also are fully aware of the evils perpetrated by Islamic governments & Islamic mobs acting against Christians & other minorities. Such evils are on a par with the treatment of Palestinians in Israel & the occupied territories & Gaza.

I haven't read the Talmud - perhaps someone who has could give an opinion as to whether it is private interpretation of Scripture. I would expect it to follow in the tradition of the traditions Jesus rejected. Mark 7.

THat doesn't authorise the Zionist treatment of the Palestinians, who include Muslim & Christian. Many Jewish groups are opposed to Zionism. The Israeli standards should be according to the Mosaic Law if they are claiming God's OC promises to Israel.

 

[church mouse guy]

Agreed; Mohammed is a prime example of one giving private interpretations, amounting to falsification of Scripture. We also are fully aware of the evils perpetrated by Islamic governments & Islamic mobs acting against Christians & other minorities. Such evils are on a par with the treatment of Palestinians in Israel & the occupied territories & Gaza.

I haven't read the Talmud - perhaps someone who has could give an opinion as to whether it is private interpretation of Scripture. I would expect it to follow in the tradition of the traditions Jesus rejected. Mark 7.

THat doesn't authorise the Zionist treatment of the Palestinians, who include Muslim & Christian. Many Jewish groups are opposed to Zionism. The Israeli standards should be according to the Mosaic Law if they are claiming God's OC promises to Israel.

Okay, Israel has not been acting like the Muslims. Why do you say things like that considering UK history of this matter? Secondly, why is Israel expected to act according to Mosaic Law when Israel is now a secular state and not a theocracy?

As for Jewish opposition to Israel, I imagine that that is big all over Europe, but think of George Soros and all of the other Jews who collaborated with the Germans.

Revelation 2:9 (KJV) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

 

[Revmitchell]

The Israeli standards should be according to the Mosaic Law if they are claiming God's OC promises to Israel.

While I also disagree with the rest of your already debunked propaganda, this statement stood out the most to me. This is simply not true and cannot be squared up with scripture. Not all of the promises God made to Israel were tied to the OT law. Some of them were made via Abraham directly and cannot be connected to the OT law.

The Abrahamic covenant was unconditional once Abraham obeyed God to leave his home land and his family.

The promises of the land were given before circumcision was directed. Genesis 12

The Abrahamic covenant was declared immutable. Hebrews 6:13-18

The Abrahamic covenant was solemnized by symbolizing the shedding of blood and passing between the parts of the sacrifice. Genesis 15:7-21; Jeremiah 34:18

The Abrahamic covenant was everlasting. Genesis 17:7

The Palestinian covenant was likewise unconditional and everlasting. Ezekiel 16:60

The Davidic covenant is likewise everlasting . 2 Samuel 7:13, 16, 19; 1 Chronicles 17:12; 22:10; Isaiah 55:3, Ezekiel 37:25

One cannot tie everything to the Mosaic covenant. You are guilty of the "hasty generalization" logical fallacy.

 

[Covenanter]

Okay, Israel has not been acting like the Muslims. Why do you say things like that considering UK history of this matter? Secondly, why is Israel expected to act according to Mosaic Law when Israel is now a secular state and not a theocracy?

As for Jewish opposition to Israel, I imagine that that is big all over Europe, but think of George Soros and all of the other Jews who collaborated with the Germans.

Revelation 2:9 (KJV) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

If Israel is now a secular state, there is no good reason for Christians to support as if it were the fulfilment of prophecy.

As I understand, Jewish organisations opposed to Zionism are not opposed to Israel itself but to the occupation, & oppression of the Palestinians.
"Jews for Justice in Palestine."

I don't know about George Soros - too much on the internet to comment on. I don't think Rev. 2:9 is relevant - tell me your interpretation.

The Israeli standards should be according to the Mosaic Law if they are claiming God's OC promises to Israel.

While I also disagree with the rest of your already debunked propaganda, this statement stood out the most to me. This is simply not true and cannot be squared up with scripture. Not all of the promises God made to Israel were tied to the OT law. Some of them were made via Abraham directly and cannot be connected to the OT law.

The Abrahamic covenant was unconditional once Abraham obeyed God to leave his home land and his family.

The promises of the land were given before circumcision was directed. Genesis 12

The Abrahamic covenant was declared immutable. Hebrews 6:13-18

The Abrahamic covenant was solemnized by symbolizing the shedding of blood and passing between the parts of the sacrifice. Genesis 15:7-21; Jeremiah 34:18

The Abrahamic covenant was everlasting. Genesis 17:7

The Palestinian covenant was likewise unconditional and everlasting. Ezekiel 16:60

The Davidic covenant is likewise everlasting . 2 Samuel 7:13, 16, 19; 1 Chronicles 17:12; 22:10; Isaiah 55:3, Ezekiel 37:25

One cannot tie everything to the Mosaic covenant. You are guilty of the "hasty generalization" logical fallacy.

I would suggest that the New Covenant should apply -

Jer. 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,’
declares the Lord.
33 ‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God, and they will be my people.
declares the Lord.
​

 

[Revmitchell]

If Israel is now a secular state, there is no good reason for Christians to support as if it were the fulfilment of prophecy.

As I understand, Jewish organisations opposed to Zionism are not opposed to Israel itself but to the occupation, & oppression of the Palestinians.
"Jews for Justice in Palestine."

I don't know about George Soros - too much on the internet to comment on. I don't think Rev. 2:9 is relevant - tell me your interpretation.





I would suggest that the New Covenant should apply -

Jer. 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,’
declares the Lord.
33 ‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God, and they will be my people.
declares the Lord.
​

So that verse is referencing the Mosaic covenant and does not address the others. Since Hebrews (a New Testament book) mentions and further affirms the Abrahamic covenant as immutable then my point is affirmed and yours is negated.

 

[church mouse guy]

We can support a secular state if we want to. Did Balfour call for a non-secular state? And of course the gathering of the Jews back to Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy. But the point is that it happened seventy years ago and many wars ago. Israel is now a leading military power in the world and has great wealth and great scientific advancement so we support Israel now as an ally.

I am merely using Revelation 2:9 to point out that there are some very bad and very evil Jews. Soros would be one. And some of the BDS groups are little more than collaborators with Islamic jihadists, although I guess Jews are saying that there is no longer any future for Jews in France. I would think that Sweden and Germany would be right behind that and then maybe the UK. There is no oppression of the Arabs and if there were May would bring them all to London for the Notting Hill Carnival, huh?

 

[Yeshua1]

If Israel is now a secular state, there is no good reason for Christians to support as if it were the fulfilment of prophecy.

As I understand, Jewish organisations opposed to Zionism are not opposed to Israel itself but to the occupation, & oppression of the Palestinians.
"Jews for Justice in Palestine."

I don't know about George Soros - too much on the internet to comment on. I don't think Rev. 2:9 is relevant - tell me your interpretation.


Nation israel will experience thattruth at His second coming!


I would suggest that the New Covenant should apply -

Jer. 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,’
declares the Lord.
33 ‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God, and they will be my people.
declares the Lord.
​

 

[Covenanter]

There is no oppression of the Arabs and if there were May would bring them all to London for the Notting Hill Carnival, huh?

Actually the Notting Hill Carnival is run by the oppressed Afro-Caribeans.

 

[church mouse guy]

Actually the Notting Hill Carnival is run by the oppressed Afro-Caribeans.

Funny!

There are so many oppressed people nowadays....

 

[Covenanter]

Funny!

There are so many oppressed people nowadays....

Yes. We were very much the oppressed minority in Southall, with the various South Asian groups much larger than white, English, evangelical Christian. Some of the schools had no ethnic English kids.

I'm more concerned about oppressed Christian minorities around the world.