Private Prayer Language

[Baptist Believer]

An experience in itself does not mean truth.

That's a very good point. But what about those of us who have witnessed what appeared to be legitimate praying in tongues (as well as a whole bunch of tongues-speaking that I'm certain was not legitimate) which was confirmed with interpretation and my own inward witness by the Spirit that the interpretation was correct?

What about the testimony of solid Christian believers who don't flaunt their private prayer experiences, but affirm that God has given them this gift for occasional use in their prayer life? For example, a few months ago I had a theology professor from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth tell me that he occasionally spoke in tongues in his private prayer life in times of great urgency. God gave him that gift in his late teenage years, even though he did not seek it. It really surprised me since this professor is not an "emotional" type (he's a hardline 5-point Calvinist) and is a long way from a stereotypical charismatic.

And for what its worth, I don't speak in tongues nor interpret tongues but I'm also not a cessationist. I've experienced the gifts too many times to question their existence today.

 

[webdog]

But what about those of us who have witnessed what appeared to be legitimate praying in tongues (as well as a whole bunch of tongues-speaking that I'm certain was not legitimate) which was confirmed with interpretation and my own inward witness by the Spirit that the interpretation was correct?

Where did this take place? If it was anywhere besides a place where a foreign language was spoken, and the one speaking in tongues was doing so to share the Gospel in THEIR language (a REAL language, not gibberish), it's not from the Lord. I don't believe the gift of tongues has been removed, however, they do NOT take place only in certaing denominations, and never in church. If I'm on a hillside with Juan Valdes, and there is nobody on that hill besides me and good old Juan, if the Lord wants me to share the Gosple with him in his language, by all means He will supply me with the ability to do so. To claim otherwise is foolish.

What about the testimony of solid Christian believers who don't flaunt their private prayer experiences, but affirm that God has given them this gift for occasional use in their prayer life? For example, a few months ago I had a theology professor from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth tell me that he occasionally spoke in tongues in his private prayer life in times of great urgency.

If it's "private", why did he and others share that they have this "gift"? How does this edify the Lord?

 

[IronWill]

Where did this take place? If it was anywhere besides a place where a foreign language was spoken, and the one speaking in tongues was doing so to share the Gospel in THEIR language (a REAL language, not gibberish), it's not from the Lord. I don't believe the gift of tongues has been removed, however, they do NOT take place only in certaing denominations, and never in church. If I'm on a hillside with Juan Valdes, and there is nobody on that hill besides me and good old Juan, if the Lord wants me to share the Gosple with him in his language, by all means He will supply me with the ability to do so. To claim otherwise is foolish.
If it's "private", why did he and others share that they have this "gift"? How does this edify the Lord?

Now hold on just a minute. A missionary I heard speak once(not in a Baptist church, for the record) told of how he was at a revival meeting in Africa. The meeting was held in the native language of the people there. None of the people there spoke English save the translator and the Missionaries. While this missionary was walking around during the invitation time, he came close to a young man who was speaking/praying in perfect English, and saying the words "Praise Jesus, Praise the Lord, etc." This young man could not speak in English, he only knew his own language.

I can tell you of a woman I know who was in a church service where they were having a missionary from Russia speak, and during one of the songs she started singing in Russian and didn't even realize it, despite the fact that she doesn't know Russian.

 

[webdog]

Now hold on just a minute. A missionary I heard speak once(not in a Baptist church, for the record) told of how he was at a revival meeting in Africa. The meeting was held in the native language of the people there. None of the people there spoke English save the translator and the Missionaries. While this missionary was walking around during the invitation time, he came close to a young man who was speaking/praying in perfect English, and saying the words "Praise Jesus, Praise the Lord, etc." This young man could not speak in English, he only knew his own language.

I can tell you of a woman I know who was in a church service where they were having a missionary from Russia speak, and during one of the songs she started singing in Russian and didn't even realize it, despite the fact that she doesn't know Russian.

I'm not saying this story isn't true, but there are plenty of "a friend of a friend of a friend experienced" stories that are used as "proof" that tongues in a church setting are "real". I have said repeatedly that an experience does not equal "from God". Pharaoh's sorcerers "experienced" the same things Moses was doing with his staff, but the spirit was different. How did this missionary know that he didn't speak english? could he have heard the missionary say the same words, and repeated it? Do you know what the purpose of tongues is?

 

[Baptist Believer]

But what about those of us who have witnessed what appeared to be legitimate praying in tongues (as well as a whole bunch of tongues-speaking that I'm certain was not legitimate) which was confirmed with interpretation and my own inward witness by the Spirit that the interpretation was correct?

Where did this take place?

The specific incident I’m referring to took place on July 4, 1987 at Stewart Beach on Galveston Island, Texas at approximately 11:30 a.m. (Do I need to get more specific? )

I have shared this before on Baptist Board, but I’ll do it again...

A college friend of mine went with me to help sponsor my home church’s youth group as we participated in a multi-denominational crusade on the very crowded public beach on the July 4th holiday. My friend and I were walking back to the where the church buses were parked to retrieve a heavy ice chest when I heard a woman standing outside the “prayer bus” (one of the buses designated for use by the prayer teams supporting the effort that day) praying in tongues. I don’t remember my remark to my friend, but I made a disparaging comment about the woman’s “foolish babbling”. As we were unloading the ice chest, my friend commented that he had somehow understand what she was praying and didn’t think it was babbling at all. So I asked him to translate what she was saying for me when we walked by a few moments later. As we walked by, he began quietly interpreting her prayer to me (a prayer that including the names of a two people he had not yet met who were not member of our church but were participating as part of a Houston parachurch ministry and a Houston-area Baptist church) related to some sort of spiritual conflict they were facing a that moment. I heard nothing but babbling. About two minutes later, we rounded the corner of some buildings and were back to the crusade location. The very people the woman prayed for were dealing with a drifter who was screaming about how we should not be doing a crusade and that God was a liar. He had “666” tattooed on his forehead and the back of his right hand (I’m not kidding!) and seemed to at least be mentally ill, if not outright demonized. That certainly seemed like a spiritual conflict to me, and perfectly matched the interpretation of the prayer that my friend gave.

If it was anywhere besides a place where a foreign language was spoken, and the one speaking in tongues was doing so to share the Gospel in THEIR language (a REAL language, not gibberish), it's not from the Lord.

That’s a handy doctrine, but the New Testament does not rule out praying in tongues. (1 Corinthians 14:14)

I don't believe the gift of tongues has been removed, however, they do NOT take place only in certain denominations

I agree. But a number of denominations don’t want tongues, so I doubt the Lord is inclined to force them on His children - especially where the reactionaries in the congregation will divide the fellowship over them.

...and never in church.

Never? That’s a pretty strong word.

Furthermore, the example I gave was not within the four walls of a church.

What about the testimony of solid Christian believers who don't flaunt their private prayer experiences, but affirm that God has given them this gift for occasional use in their prayer life? For example, a few months ago I had a theology professor from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth tell me that he occasionally spoke in tongues in his private prayer life in times of great urgency.

If it's "private", why did he and others share that they have this "gift"?

Because he was asked about the practice. Should he deny God’s work in his life?

More specifically, he was teaching a class on the writings of Paul (he is an expert on Paul) and we were dealing with some of the issues involved in 1 Corinthians. He wasn’t urging people to seek the gift, nor saying that the presence of the gift in his life gave him any additional authority. He just matter-of-factly explained how he understood the situation.

How does this edify the Lord?

Um, it demonstrates one of the loving ways that God works with His children?

You seem to imply that there is a problem with God working this way.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I have said repeatedly that an experience does not equal "from God".

And your lack of belief does not invalidate the legitimacy of God's work in the lives of other people.

 

[webdog]

And your lack of belief does not invalidate the legitimacy of God's work in the lives of other people.

This sounds like Word of Faith garbage. God doesn't need me to "release my faith" in order for me to speak in tongues. He's not my puppet. It sounds like you have some kind of AOG or COC upbringing.

 

[webdog]

That’s a handy doctrine, but the New Testament does not rule out praying in tongues. (1 Corinthians 14:14)

Basing an argument from a negative is useless and foolish. This is what Dan Brown did to support his view that Jesus was married ("if the New Testament doesn't mention it, He must have been")

I agree. But a number of denominations don’t want tongues, so I doubt the Lord is inclined to force them on His children - especially where the reactionaries in the congregation will divide the fellowship over them.

God is not bound by what man "wants". I believe God can allow what man wants, and He can allow other spirits to intervene. If someone would rather edify themselves than God, the result is not from God. I believe this to be the case with denominations that practice tongues (or they are just making it up to sound "spiritual") Did He ask permission of the Apostles if He could give them tongues at Pentecost?

Um, it demonstrates one of the loving ways that God works with His children?

You seem to imply that there is a problem with God working this way.

If it's private, there should be no need to demonstrate anything! I have no problem with God working in any way. We are told how to pray, and the Bible never tells us that He gives us some "special language" to pray in! There is also Scripture that tells us that whatever is not done out of faith is sin. Faith is the substance of what is hoped for, and what is not seen. If the Bible never mentions a private prayer language, how do we "hope" for one!

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Web, do believers only experience things that are clearly stated in Scripture?

 

[webdog]

Web, do believers only experience things that are clearly stated in Scripture?

Does Scripture ever mention passing gas? I'm known to have experienced that!

Seriously, since we have the completed Word of God, anything "experienced" that doesn't fall into line with Scripture has to be questioned, especially in light that the Bible tells us exactly how to pray. The Holy Spirit interceding on our behalf in groans we can't understand is the Holy Spirit interceding, not us praying in "groans".

There are many extra biblical experiences. Alien abductions, Benny Hinn sermons, holy laughter, monsters in the closet, etc. If you don't measure these experiences against Scripture, you are in trouble.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Web, lets not go to extremes here. I am in no way talking about some of the garabage that is out there (i.e. TBN highlights) and considered "experiences."

I respect your views. In fact up until just a few brief years ago I would be standing firm right next to you. However over the last few years I have come to realize that the things of God are much deeper and bigger than any of us can truly grasp.

 

[webdog]

I respect your views. In fact up until just a few brief years ago I would be standing firm right next to you. However over the last few years I have come to realize that the things of God are much deeper and bigger than any of us can truly grasp.

As do I yours. Besides the verse in 1 Corinthians about the Holy Spirit interceding on our behalf, do you know of any other that support a private prayer language? If there aren't any, how do we measure this experience and all other abiblical ones?

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Web, to be completely honest I do not know how we measure them other than trying to walk as closely with the Lord as possible and follow the leadership of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

The calling of God to preach is a similar thing in my mind from the standpoint that I cannot point to a specfic text for measurement and say there is God calling a man to be a preacher/pastor. Yet I am thoroughly convinced that He did that in my life.

Again, I just have learned (and I do not try to hold anyone else to this view) that the things of God are deeper and bigger than I can really comprehend. My job is to walk as closely with Him as I possibly can and follow His leadership through the Word and through the Holy Spirit.

 

[webdog]

The calling of God to preach is a similar thing in my mind from the standpoint that I cannot point to a specfic text for measurement and say there is God calling a man to be a preacher/pastor. Yet I am thoroughly convinced that He did that in my life.

I agree about the "call", but I think this is explained pretty well in 1 Timothy 3:1. There is a desire, and God gives the desire, this is clear. The same cannot be said about a private prayer language, though, and that's my point.l

 

[cindig2]

Think that we have something up on Charles Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, Adrian Rogers, David Jeremiah, John MacArthur, Charles Stanley and many many more very Godly men? I have a probelm with Jerry Rankin being the President of the IMB, when he was elected they weren't aware of his "private prayer language". I find no where in the Bible where it speaks about the Holy Spirit giving gifts just for our own edification. Just because Jerry Rankin says he does it, doesn't make it right. I read an article in our state Baptist paper about Jerry Rankin. He said, "I don't think it's something that everyone has to do, I just need it". Give me a break. When people aren't like minded in their doctrine, confusion and problems arise, just as they have.
I have always thought that the Baptist Faith and Message should have included point blank something about tongues. But it's like our fourfathers not putting in the constitution about gay marriage, they never thought it would be something that would ever be considered.

 

[IronWill]

As do I yours. Besides the verse in 1 Corinthians about the Holy Spirit interceding on our behalf, do you know of any other that support a private prayer language? If there aren't any, how do we measure this experience and all other abiblical ones?

"Test the spirits, whether they are from God."

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Think that we have something up on Charles Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, Adrian Rogers, David Jeremiah, John MacArthur, Charles Stanley and many many more very Godly men? I have a probelm with Jerry Rankin being the President of the IMB, when he was elected they weren't aware of his "private prayer language". I find no where in the Bible where it speaks about the Holy Spirit giving gifts just for our own edification. Just because Jerry Rankin says he does it, doesn't make it right. I read an article in our state Baptist paper about Jerry Rankin. He said, "I don't think it's something that everyone has to do, I just need it". Give me a break. When people aren't like minded in their doctrine, confusion and problems arise, just as they have.
I have always thought that the Baptist Faith and Message should have included point blank something about tongues. But it's like our fourfathers not putting in the constitution about gay marriage, they never thought it would be something that would ever be considered.

cin, as I have stated in other posts on here, I respect your views and a few years ago would have said the exact same thing. But anytime we try to confine God to our own theological box we are in trouble. The texts that have been discussed here are not cut and dry and there is much we do not understand.

I think you might be surprised at what some of the men you listed believed about such things. Dig a little bit and you might find some interesting things.

Dr. Rankin has done a fine job as President of the IMB and his beliefs in this area has not affected his job at all. Are we now going to say that all SBC has to agree on all minor areas of doctrine?

 

[Gershom]

As do I yours. Besides the verse in 1 Corinthians about the Holy Spirit interceding on our behalf, do you know of any other that support a private prayer language? If there aren't any, how do we measure this experience and all other abiblical ones?

1 Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

 

[webdog]

1 Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

This is about tongues, not a private prayer language (how can someone "interpret" a private prayer?)

 

[Gershom]

This is about tongues, not a private prayer language (how can someone "interpret" a private prayer?)

Yes, it is about tongues. Says let them speak in the meeting if there's an interpreter. If there's no interpreter, it says let them speak (context is tongues) to themselves and to God. Has to be talking about prayer. We pray to God, do we not? The context is tongues.