Probe finds terrorists in U.S. 'training for war'

[elijah_lives]

Neighbors of Muslim encampment fear retaliation if they report to police
Posted: February 17, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

'The Pakistani terrorist group Jamaat ul Fuqra is using Islamic schools in the United States as training facilities, confirms a joint investigative report by an intelligence think tank and an independent reporter.

A covert visit to an encampment in the Catskill Mountains near Hancock, N.Y., called "Islamberg" found neighboring residents deeply concerned about military-style training taking place there but frustrated by the lack of attention from federal authorities, said the report by the Northeast Intelligence Network, which worked with an Internet blogger, "CP," to publish an interim report.

The neighbors interviewed, who asked not to be identified, said they feared retaliation if they were to make a report to law enforcement officials.

"We see children – small children run around over there when they should be in school," one neighbor said. "We hear bursts of gunfire all of the time, and we know that there is military-like training going on there. Those people are armed and dangerous." '

Anybody on BB live near this?

 

[Gina B]

WND has gotten even worse since I gave up on it long ago. Wow!

Ok, let's start at the beginning.

"...confirms a joint investigative report by an intelligence think tank and an independent reporter"

Who is the intelligence think tank? Who is the independent reporter? Why are they not named?

Why did these people, if they exist, pay a "covert" visit to the neighbors? How covert was it, if it's reported on the world wide web? Why, if this is true and the neighbor's fear for their safety for talking to them, why is the fact that the neighbors spoke to these un-named sources being reported?
That sounds mighty unethical. Why should I believe highly unethical people?

We see children – small children run around over there when they should be in school," one neighbor said. "We hear bursts of gunfire all of the time, and we know that there is military-like training going on there. Those people are armed and dangerous.

What kind of logic is that? They see small children outside of the school during school hours and hear bursts of gunfire. They give them mean looks when they pass by.

This sounds more like drunk uncle Jeb down in Alabama than a skilled Pakistani terrorist training group! Actually, it kinda sounds like a school I attended. We learned to shoot, and during school hours, as it was for school.

Gilani, who refers to himself as "the sixth Sultan Ul Faqr," has stated his objective is to "purify" Islam through violence.

Huh? I thought they were secluded and secretive. When did this happen? Where did it happen? Who recorded it? Where did WND get this quote from?

...Investigators found a weapons firing range that is not visible from the road or any other publicly accessible vantage position. It appeared to have been recently used.

Ok, so this supposably militant camp, which goes as far as to be suspicious of neighbors driving to their homes and yells at them, let a private investigator wander around the property finding this stuff out?

They also note that the propery is near a water supply source.

Well blow me down.

The kids don't stay inside all the time, someone shoots guns, they let private investigators wander around, and it's located near a water supply place.

I don't know about you, but I think we should run around in circles screaming!

 

[LadyEagle]

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/timeline/2002/nypost020102.html

 

[Linda64]

I'll bet you there is more than just ONE of these groups in the United States--I have heard that the Muslims enter the US through Mexico by using "Spanish" sounding names--and probably they come in through Canada. America needs to wake up to the reality that Islam (not the individual Muslims--but the religion they follow) is our #1 enemy.

 

[LadyEagle]

http://www.thenewamerican.com/focus/terrorism/index.htm

 

[elijah_lives]

Gina, I was more interested in a discussion of the content, not a journalism lesson.

 

[Gina B]

neighboring residents deeply concerned about military-style training taking place there but frustrated by the lack of attention from federal authorities

(from first article)

The FBI has said it has investigated Muslims of the Americas and come up with nothing.

(from second article)

...according to a published report.

What published report?

Are you seeing why people don't accept these articles?

Contradictions, sources from things like ONE independant reporter who miraculously knows things nobody else can find out, sources such as unnamed articles, and on and on.

 

[elijah_lives]

Well, here's what I read:

quote:
"...confirms a joint investigative report by an intelligence think tank and an independent reporter"
Who is the intelligence think tank? Who is the independent reporter? Why are they not named?

'said the report by the Northeast Intelligence Network , which worked with an Internet blogger, "CP," to publish an interim report .'

Why did these people, if they exist, pay a "covert" visit to the neighbors? How covert was it, if it's reported on the world wide web? Why, if this is true and the neighbor's fear for their safety for talking to them, why is the fact that the neighbors spoke to these un-named sources being reported?

If they are afraid for their safety, I could see why the are "unnamed". Since they are unnamed, how is that unethical? Do not MSM use "unnamed sources" all the time? In the interim report linked to the WND article, the investigative reporter is named as "CP"; he obviously fears retaliation, and prefers to go by these initials. This is extremely common in journalism, and I don't see a problem with that.

"We hear bursts of gunfire all of the time, and we know that there is military-like training going on there. Those people are armed and dangerous.

Sounds logical to me. I don't know the law in the New York, but "military-like training " is illegal in Missouri.

Gilani, who refers to himself as "the sixth Sultan Ul Faqr," has stated his objective is to "purify" Islam through violence.
Huh? I thought they were secluded and secretive. When did this happen? Where did it happen? Who recorded it? Where did WND get this quote from?

If you had taken the time to read the published interim report, you would see these questions were answered. The quotes came from "a document
written by GILANI (Jamaat ul-Fuqra) and published by Qu'ranic Open University..." Later, the address of this university is actually published in the interim report, along with images of the "university" itself.

I'm not going to take the time to further outline the discrepancies in your posts. ALL of the questions you asked were addressed, either in the WND article itself, or the interim report that is linked to the article. This suggests to me that you did not read it in its entirety, and that concerns about the credibility of WND's article are unfounded.

 

[Gina B]

Well, if they call themselves an intelligent group, they must be?

Even in the interim article, the identity of the investigator, and the free blog site, is kept private.

Now, why are you putting so much faith in the "Northeast Intelligence Network"?
They are a branch of Haggman's private investigation service, with AN office, which specializes in insurance fraud and can't even keep it's website online.
And I've got a blog on blogspot too. Does it give me credibility?

I'm not trying to be mean, really, but I don't trust this article. This IS a focus on what it says. Part of reading it includes figuring where it came from. Both what it said and where it came from were really shakey things to me. And how is this group going to NOT know who their neighbors are? It seems like a pretty easy thing to figure.

Think of it this way. If you were in court, would you want to be found guilty or not guilty based on the credibility, research, and writing abilities of the same people who wrote this "news"?

I wouldn't want my safety depending on them. No way.
Wouldn't want it in the hands of our government either, but that's another story.

Are there terrorist groups training in America? I believe there are. Is the listed group one of them?

If they are, this group didn't do the FBI any favors by scaring them into more secrecy with this article.

So it wasn't just bad journalism, if this is true and this group is indeed a terrorist training ground, they may just jeopardized my safety, and yours.

Are you comfortable with that? Is that good.

I'm not comfortable with it. And I don't think it's good.

 

[poncho]

Does the Pentagon, CIA and FBI have websites like this for propaganda purposes? The chances are much better than average I'd say. Do they have the money to set up sites like this for propaganda purposes? There are billions and billions of dollars unaccounted for, Ooopsie! We spend billions to get our computers to communicate but no matter how much of your money we spend on equipment and experts we just can't seem to get it right. Ooopsie.

BTW, Michael Chertoff of Homeland security fame is in desperate need of massive funding again no matter how much of our money they spend they just can't seem to get it together either. Ooopsie. We goofed again during Katrina...we need more money...give it up or the terrorists will git you and your little dog Toto too! Ooopsie.

Did the Bush administration spend almost two billion dollars in two years for "public relations" purposes? Yep. It's failing. Ooopsie. We need more money to scare you into giving up your liberty...and convincing your kids into volunteering to fight for Hallibuton, Dyncorp, Shell and Dutch oil and the Carlyle group and the Bin Laden group construction company, now give it up or the terrorists will git you and your little dog Toto too. Ooopsie.

Does the Bush administration spend your money on fake news? Yep. Caught again. Ooopsie. Give us more money and do as we say or the terrorists will git you and your little dog Toto too! Ooopsie.

 

[LadyEagle]

Cleric's Upstate Followers Seen As Threat

by Adam Miller
The New York Post
February 1, 2002




A secluded Muslim settlement in upstate New York is an outpost for a terrorist group founded by Sheik Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani, the radical Islamic cleric Daniel Pearl was trying to interview when he disappeared, according to a published report.

Since its beginning in Brooklyn about 20 years ago, the national Jamaat ul-Fuqra group has been linked to more than two dozen murders and firebombings across the United States, the Binghamton Press and Sun-Bulletin reported in December.

But the 300 Muslims who live in Islamberg, nestled in the western Catskills town of Tompkins, deny they are members of ul-Fuqra. They insist they are followers of a different organization, Muslims of the Americas, which was also founded by Gilani.

That group preaches Islamic study and urges its members to live in rural enclaves "free from the decadence of a godless society," members say.

The FBI has said it has investigated Muslims of the Americas and come up with nothing.

From the link I posted above. The story was first published in the NY Post.

A quick Google search will bring up the group's web site and related islamic sites, including a group located in North Carolina.

 

[LadyEagle]

Here is a link describing the Jamaat ul-Fuqra group:

Link Not a nice peaceful group, according to this link.

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
A secluded Muslim settlement in upstate New York is an outpost for a terrorist group founded by Sheik Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani, the radical Islamic cleric Daniel Pearl was trying to interview when he disappeared, according to a published report...


The FBI has said it has investigated Muslims of the Americas and come up with nothing.

From the link I posted above. The story was first published in the NY Post.

A quick Google search will bring up the group's web site and related islamic sites, including a group located in North Carolina. </font>[/QUOTE]Ok, here's a major problem.

You apparently believe that this is a terrorist group. You know this because it was said to be said in "a published report" and because you found information about the group on the internet.

The FBI is saying that it found nothing.

Apparently, you believe that the FBI is lying, and that a whole bunch of people know that there are terrorist groups training en masse on United States soil. Especially at this place in New York, and one in North Carolina.

What are you going to do now? That's a serious charge. The people in government, if this is true, could all be charged with treason and given the death penalty. It's a pretty serious charge, you can't just walk around accusing people of crimes that could get them the death penalty, but since you've apparently already thought this out and believe it to be correct...
Citizens have the right and DUTY to overthrow the government and establish one that truly represents the people, especially when they're causing the destruction of our country and putting our lives at risk and aiding and abetting an enemy by refusing to act and by allowing them to continue to train here to kill us.

So, what are your plans?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

LE,

As your lawyer, I must insist that you do not answer that question.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by Linda64:
I'll bet you there is more than just ONE of these groups in the United States--I have heard that the Muslims enter the US through Mexico by using "Spanish" sounding names--and probably they come in through Canada. America needs to wake up to the reality that Islam (not the individual Muslims--but the religion they follow) is our #1 enemy.

What in the world?

The post is a not-so-credible report, and you're backing it because you're HEARD that Muslims enter the US through Mexico by using Spanish sounding names...and probably through Canada.

Therefore, we need to wake up and realize that the religion of Islam is our number one enemy.

How does this all connect?

A report with a credibility problem leads you to remember a rumor you heard, which leads you to state that Islam in enemy number one.

Wars start when false reports and rumors abound. Please, let's not give them any more help!

 

[elijah_lives]

Remember that while it is illegal to lie to law enforcement, it is not illegal for them to lie to us. I can think of a big reason why locals might be concerned, but federals are not: They have someone on the inside...

 

[LadyEagle]

You apparently believe that this is a terrorist group. You know this because it was said to be said in "a published report" and because you found information about the group on the internet.

Gina, apparently you didn't read the last link I posted. Here's some of what is at that link, so you can decide for yourself on information other than that posted from WND. I posted the first link to show you that WND was not the original source. I didn't post whether or not I thought this was a terrorist group, and actually gave no opinion one way or the other, so it is reasonable to assume you jumped to a conclusion. Be that as it may, here is some of the information from the last link I posted. Readers of this thread can come to their own conclusions as to whether or not this is a terrorist group, okay?

Jamaat al-Fuqra, also described as a cult, is currently the focus of a probe by US authorities for charges ranging from links with terrorist groups to laundering money into Pakistan.

&lt;snip&gt;

US officials in 1989, during a search of a storage locker in Colorado Springs, recovered a large cache of armaments and documents with multiple links to the JF. Among the arms recovered were handguns, semi-automatic firearms, explosives, pipe bombs, bomb components and several bombs. Some of the seized documents described the activities and code of the "Muhammad Commandos of Sector 5," who were reportedly involved in arms training and intelligence gathering. The documents, including maps and lists, contained details of potential JF targets and victims in Los Angeles, Arizona and Colorado––oil and gas installations and electrical facilities, US. Air Force Academy and other military sites, people in 12 US states and Canada with Jewish or Hindu-sounding names. Various JF publications were seized during this search. Titles of some of the publications seized included "Guerrilla Warfare", "Counter Guerrilla Operations", "Understanding Amateur Radio", and "Fair Weather Flying," and "Basic Blueprint Reading and Sketching."

&lt;snip&gt;

One of the persons convicted in the World Trade Center bombing in 1993 was Clement Rodney Hampton-el, a Fuqra member. JF was linked in a Congressional testimony to the planning of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

&lt;snip&gt;

In a February 22, 2002 interview, Gilani said his ‘contribution’ to the ‘Kashmir cause’ since 1947 and to the Afghan Jehad were on record. In the same interview, Gilani claimed that both the governments of Pakistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) had requested him to mobilise his university students to project the cause of Kashmir in the US through the media by holding rallies and informing the public. To this end, he claimed that the Kashmir-American Friendship Society was formed in 1993.

&lt;snip&gt;

Gilani is currently under investigation for his alleged links to the al Qaeda terror network of Osama bin Laden and for money laundering from the US into Pakistan and vice versa. The US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is investigating connections between a small black Muslim community in California's Sierra Nevada valley, called Baladullah and the JF. The FBI reportedly looked into Baladullah, a community of 30 Muslim families, while investigating into JF’s activities at a remote Virginia settlement, where one person was convicted in November 2001 on charges of federal firearms violations.

BTW, JB, I appreciate the offer for your legal services. Can I keep you on retainer?

 

[LadyEagle]

BTW: Mubarik Ali Shah Gilani, the founder of this group, was the dude Daniel Pearl was trying to interview.

 

[Gina B]

LE, that's all good. That's great.

The thing is, you sound like you believe this.

That's good and great too. That's your right.

But...the question is this.

If you believe this, you believe that our government is, at best, refusing to do its job, at worst, guilty of the most terrible form of treason.

That's a pretty horrible situation.
What are you hoping will happen, now that you've brought this knowledge to light?

What were you hoping the reaction would be? What is YOUR reaction to it? What will you do?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

LE,

Again, as your self appointed lawyer, I must strongly advise you to NOT answer that question.

Joseph Botwinick