Progressive Sanctification

[2BHizown]

Scripture tells us that Christ grew in grace! Actually I found that a mind boggling concept!

We just finished a study of Sinclair Ferguson's book, Grow in Grace which shows both how Christ grew in grace and how and by what means we are to do the same! Growth in grace is progressive sanctification.

 

[J. Jump]

Growth in grace is progressive sanctification.

Absolutely!!! That is another great way to put the process.

 

[2BHizown]

Unfortunately as far as I can tell through Scripture this is not an oxymoronic statement at all. There are those that do not walk in the Spirit, but chose to continue to control their own lives.

You gave an example yourself of the Corinthians. They had not grown at all.

There are many Scripture evidences given to show that sanctification is not a guarantee, but is a choice that one makes as to whether or not to allow the Holy Spirit to work in them.

Perhaps one who is not growing should take a look and examine themself to see if they be in the faith!
Mt 6 : 24 No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2 : 6

There are many scriptural arguments that there is no such creature as a 'carnal' christian; either you are, or you're not!
The Laodiceans lost their first love and Christ told them to return ASAP, did He not?
Perhaps a good new thread possibility as to whether or not there is such as a 'carnal' christian.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I do not disagree with this at all. I am just wrestling with whether this is the entire purpose of sanctification based on Scripture and how this all works with progressive sanctification.

1. What other purpose, based on Scripture, do you think there is for sanctification?

2. It is progressive in that it is not a one time event. It is a lifelong struggle of putting the sin nature to death through the Holy Spirit. Why are you trying to make this more complicated than the Bible does?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[J. Jump]

There are many scriptural arguments that there is no such creature as a 'carnal' christian; either you are, or you're not!

One can definitely be a carnal Christian. Again you gave evidence of that in one of your post, because Paul referred to the Corinthians as carnal.

The Scriptures you gave are all given to believers. Believers can only serve one master they will either serve God or something or someone else, but not both.

If we are not walking in the Spirit then we are walking in the flesh. Believers can walk in the flesh. Believers can sow to the flesh.

Being Christians does not make us immune to sin or living in sin. It is still possible for believers.

 

[2BHizown]

No one could declare my position more accurately and scripturally than Ernest Reisinger did here:

http://www.peacemakers.net/unity/carnal.htm

I think possibly Paul was challenging the validity of their salvation. Much still to analyze on this!
Reisinger includes this comment:
The 'carnal Christian' teaching is also the mother of one of the most soul-destroying teachings of our day. It suggests that you can take Jesus as your Savior and yet treat obedience to his lordship as optional. How often is the appeal made to the so-called 'carnal Christians' to put Jesus on the throne and 'make him Lord'! When they accept Jesus as Lord, they are told, they will cease to be 'carnal Christians'. But such teaching is foreign to the New Testament. When our Lord appeared in human form in history the angel announced his coming in the words, 'For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord' (Luke 2:11). He cannot be divided. The Savior and Lord are one. When the apostles preached they proclaimed Christ to be Lord. To bow to his rule was never presented in the Bible as a second step of consecration. 'For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake' (2 Corinthians 4:5).

When sinners truly receive him they do receive him as Lord. 'As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him' (Colossians 2:6).

 

[TaterTot]

I have thought of it like this: I was saved (the actual day and time). I am saved (now) and I am being saved (until the day of completion). Sounds progressive to me.

Yes, we have to put to death the old nature, but at least for me, that is a daily (progressive) process that I will never completely attain until I get home.

 

[J. Jump]

When sinners truly receive him they do receive him as Lord.

Receiving Jesus as Savior, and receiving Christ as Lord are two totally different things. You can not make Christ Lord of your life until you are alive spiritually (eternally saved).

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Receiving Jesus as Savior, and receiving Christ as Lord are two totally different things. You can not make Christ Lord of your life until you are alive spiritually (eternally saved).

Actually, you can't separate the two. Eternal salvation requires that we accept Christ as Savior AND Lord.

 

[2BHizown]

Actually, you can't separate the two. Eternal salvation requires that we accept Christ as Savior AND Lord.

I definitely agree!:thumbsup:

 

[PastorSBC1303]

1. What other purpose, based on Scripture, do you think there is for sanctification?

If I knew the complete answer to this, why would I have started the thread and talked about wrestling with the issue? :smilewinkgrin:

2. It is progressive in that it is not a one time event. It is a lifelong struggle of putting the sin nature to death through the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you. I am just wrestling with it to see if there is more in Scripture than we normally assume on this issue.

Why are you trying to make this more complicated than the Bible does?

What part of wrestling don't you get?

I find it to be a very healthy thing to wrestle with such concepts in Scripture. Somtimes you actually find that you did not have as good a handle on the teaching of Scripture as you first thought.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I have thought of it like this: I was saved (the actual day and time). I am saved (now) and I am being saved (until the day of completion). Sounds progressive to me.

Yes, we have to put to death the old nature, but at least for me, that is a daily (progressive) process that I will never completely attain until I get home.

That is a good way to look at it.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

If I knew the complete answer to this, why would I have started the thread and talked about wrestling with the issue? :smilewinkgrin:



I agree with you. I am just wrestling with it to see if there is more in Scripture than we normally assume on this issue.



What part of wrestling don't you get?

I find it to be a very healthy thing to wrestle with such concepts in Scripture. Somtimes you actually find that you did not have as good a handle on the teaching of Scripture as you first thought.

Is there a Biblical reason you are wrestling with this? IOW, what got you thinking about this?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Is there a Biblical reason you are wrestling with this? IOW, what got you thinking about this?

I had lunch yesterday with a friend of mine and we began discussing it. He shared with me about a professor he had that taught there was no such thing as progessive sanctification and ultimately it results in a works based salvation. His opinion was you are either walking in the spirit or walking in the flesh. Another part that troubled him about it was the concept that you somehow "get better", which to him was false.

I did not agree with him. Yet I found it to be quite intriguing and it got me to wrestling with it. Therefore, I decided to post on here and see what the brilliant minds of the BB thought. :thumbs:

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I had lunch yesterday with a friend of mine and we began discussing it. He shared with me about a professor he had that taught there was no such thing as progessive sanctification and ultimately it results in a works based salvation. His opinion was you are either walking in the spirit or walking in the flesh. Another part that troubled him about it was the concept that you somehow "get better", which to him was false.

I did not agree with him. Yet I found it to be quite intriguing and it got me to wrestling with it. Therefore, I decided to post on here and see what the brilliant minds of the BB thought. :thumbs:

It is a works salvation and sanctification and glorification. It is all the work of God within the lives of the elect. Paul makes it quite clear in Romans 7 that although we have been given new life in Christ in the spirit that the old sinful nature is still struggling with the spirit of God within our lives, and that Paul is telling us to daily mortify the sinful nature in Romans 8. This is the work of the Holy Spirit within us which daily and progressively sanctifies us and prepares us for glorification in Heaven.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[2BHizown]

Pastor SBC1303 said:

Therefore, I decided to post on here and see what the brilliant minds of the BB thought

Oh Oh. Wish you'd told us that first and I'd have kept quiet!

Its better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt! Too late now!

 

[Davyboy]

I just want to tell everyone, that I seen progressive justification being talked about in "Other Christian Denominations" under Justification by faith and Justification by Works, Page 27.

 

[TaterTot]

Receiving Jesus as Savior, and receiving Christ as Lord are two totally different things. You can not make Christ Lord of your life until you are alive spiritually (eternally saved).

Huh? I'd like to see a passage supporting this concept.

I saw another post that said that salvation and sanctification are 2 seperate things. How can one be saved but not sanctified? Or how can one be sanctified, but not saved? Maybe in some circles, there is no need for sanctification since God has made his choise as to the elect, so maybe we can just live it up. :saint:

I dont see how anyone can say that sanctification is not progressive, but I am aware that that is a train of thought.

 

[J. Jump]

Huh? I'd like to see a passage supporting this concept.

TaterTot when one is saved they are accepting Jesus as the Lamb of God that died and shed His blood on their behalf. That is eternal salvation.

Accepting Christ as the Lord, King, Messiah, however you want to put it, has to do with the way one lives after eternal salvation. There are people have that been eternally saved because they have trusted in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God, but they have yet to turn over the reigns of their lives to Him as Lord.

Accepting Christ as Lord has to do with the sanctification process which I agree with you is a progressive process. But one must allow the Holy Spirit to work that process. It's not automatic.

Hope that clarifies.

EDIT: As far as a passage goes you can see the difference throughout the NT Scriptures.

 

[El_Guero]

Pastor

If I understand progressive sanctification correctly it is a more reformed view of salvation. It seems to demand that as Christains that we are always growing in Christ.

I basically have two problem areas that I struggle with on this.

(1) Where I have a problem is like your friend's professor indicated, we are either in Christ or in our Flesh at any moment or point in time. So I feel that this sounds like a works based salvation.

I do know that reformed believers (and theologians) do not consider it such, but it sure does sound that way to me.

(2) If we are to always be growing in Christ that how would this progressive sanctification handle all of the setbacks we have from sin in our lives?

Just a little mumbling and strugglin' myself.

Preach hard tomorrow, or preach easy - but, preach the Word!