Proportional Giving or Ten Percent

[Tom Butler]

A couple of points to throw into the discussion.

1. If one is trying to decide what proportion of his increase to give, he has a guideline. The tithe.

2. Jesus himself endorsed tithing.
Matthew 23:23

Woe unto you, scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint, anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy and faith; these OUGHT YE TO HAVE DONE, and not to leave the other undone.

What did Jesus say they ought to have done? Tithe on even their spices. What did he say they ought to have also done, but didn't? Not neglect the law, judgment, mercy and faith. That's why he called them hypocrites.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Do you want a proportional blessing or a title blessing?

Mark 12:42

41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”


Have any of us ever tithed out of our poverty. Ever had your Cable TV disconnected so as to tithe? To me, this poor widow gave her all for which she received a Title Blessing. That sounds like a win-win for her.

Very few if any like the widow for she gave her all.

But there are people who tithed out of their poverty, if I understand your meaning by "out of their poverty". I can think of several meanings to that phrase. What were you thinking when you wrote it?

 

[freeatlast]

If I make a statement I'll be told I'm wrong so..., I'll just ask a question.

Does your church support proportional giving or maintain a ten percent?

The leadership teaches the tenth (the tithe), but they are wrong as it is not biblical under the NT. The NT reaches to give what ever we want from a cheerful heart according to how we have prospered.

 

[Salty]

The Bible teaches tithing, our church teaches that believers should tithe. Giving is over and above. Who made up proportional giving anyway????

Yes, the OLD TESTEMANT teaches thithing - Can you show me where the NT require thithing? Chapter and verse please

 

[Crabtownboy]

Yes, the OLD TESTEMANT teaches thithing - Can you show me where the NT require thithing? Chapter and verse please

Salty, I do not see the title as a law or an absolute requirement. I do believe that tithing does several things:

1. It shows we have love for our fellow church members and other Christians that may be helped if we tithe.

2. It shows what God taught, that 90% is enough and he will give us blessings for tithing. These may or may not be material blessings. As said in Corinthians "God loves a cheerful giver".

3. I fully believe #2. Through the years of tithing I gradually came to the conclusion that I could not afford not to tithe.

4. Tithing is a way of showing we put God first in our lives.

5. In Matthew 23:23 Jesus condemns the Pharisees for not practicing law—justice, mercy and faithfulness ... and he also tells them to continue tithing.

Just a few thoughts quickly brought together.

 

[DiamondLady]

Yes, the OLD TESTEMANT teaches thithing - Can you show me where the NT require thithing? Chapter and verse please

Salty, we both know there's no place where tithing is taught or commanded in the New Testatament. There are a couple of places it's mentioned (once in Hebrews, one's already been given above), but just because it's not specifically taught does not mean it should not be done by today's Christians. We can't ignore things simply because they're to the left of the frontpiece of the New Testament in our Bible. We'd lose a lot of good teaching if we did that.

 

[HAMel]

What were you thinking when you wrote it?

Many of us have been involved in one effort or the other over the years and come to a point where you simply can't go any farther. All is exhausted. There isn't anywhere else to turn, so you throw your hands up and walk away.

I kinda see this widow and her two mites as having faith in the Lord like few of us have today. She was at her wits end. There was nothing she could do to go any farther. There was nothing left. Like she was going to prepare the last bit of corn into "cakes and die".

Rather than become angry, or shaking her fist up to heaven, or resort to a pity party, she merely turned to the Lord and gave her all. Her last substance. Like her last breath. She had nothing else to give but two pieces of a penny and gave it all to the Lord. Maybe she felt so destitute she thought she would just go off and die but first, was going to give all she had to the Lord.

I don't know what I was thinking. Perhaps there are, like so many other scripture in the Bible, several different applications that can be brought to bear. Our Bible is truly a Living Bible and can speak to us in many ways.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Salty, we both know there's no place where tithing is taught or commanded in the New Testatament. There are a couple of places it's mentioned (once in Hebrews, one's already been given above), but just because it's not specifically taught does not mean it should not be done by today's Christians. We can't ignore things simply because they're to the left of the frontpiece of the New Testament in our Bible. We'd lose a lot of good teaching if we did that.

You are so right. Also no where does Jesus, Paul or any New Testament writer say tithing is to be done away with. They probably believed it as a given that tithing was expected by God.

 

[Robert Snow]

That is probably true. But I preach it. No one can force what another person gives. I don't even know what anyone gives. But, for people in leadership such as SS teachers, deacons, worship leaders, they have to practice it.

So, if someone teaches Sunday School, you require at least a tithe? If so, how do you know, do you request a copy of their tax return?

Any requirements along these lines would not work for me at all! I would respectfully not participate.

 

[freeatlast]

You are so right. Also no where does Jesus, Paul or any New Testament writer say tithing is to be done away with. They probably believed it as a given that tithing was expected by God.

I assume you will also apply that to the death penalty to be consistant as the NT never says it was done away with either.

 

[Tom Bryant]

So, if someone teaches Sunday School, you require at least a tithe? If so, how do you know, do you request a copy of their tax return?

Any requirements along these lines would not work for me at all! I would respectfully not participate.

To be honest, from reading your posts here, you would not be asked.

But at a later post I explained what we did.

 

[12strings]

Even in the O.T. there is not a cut and dry tithe. There were certain tithes at certain harvests, other times you would give a different amount. It often added up to a lot more than a tithe. The OT often speaks of "tithes" (plural).

That said, I don't think there is any scriptural warrant for requiring a tithe.

That also said, I do tithe. :thumbs:

 

[Alive in Christ]

At my church we practice neither tithing nor proportional giving.

We practice what we believe to be the scriptural form of giving.

Complete "free will" giving....

Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[David Lamb]

So what is a tithe if it is not a proportion of 1:10?

It sems that the phrase "proportional giving" must mean something other than giving a proportion of one's income. What is meant by it, and does it generally result in people giving less or more than a tenth of their income?

These are genuine questions from one who does not know. I am not trying to be argumentative.

 

[HAMel]

David, it seems reasonable that any amount we give back to the Lord is but a "portion". As for giving less I don't really think so. Proportional giving does away with that "rigid figure" of 10 percent as being a Christian should not be a burden.

If any church is to preach a specific figure of 10 percent then they might as well go back to adhering to other practices that were mandated/required under the Law. Praise God we're not under the Law anymore.

To me, the 10 percent tithe is a good round number to go by. Nothing wrong with giving 15 percent but on occasion, if all you can give is 7 percent, that's not a sin nor should one feel guilty about it.

 

[DiamondLady]

being a Christian should not be a burden. <snip>

Whew, I have a real problem with that phrase. I believe, scripturally, Christ taught that being a Christian COULD and for some WOULD be a burden. He talks about being persecuted, being hated, even being killed for being a Christian.
Look at the disciples, the Christians in Rome who were fed to the lions, all throughout history and even today in many countries where being a Christian will earn you the death penalty. And yet there's the phrase that being a Christian shouldn't be a BURDEN????? People are dying for standing for Christ and we're concerned about giving $1 of ever $10 to the church to further the cause of Christ?

 

[HAMel]

Whew, I have a real problem with that phrase. I believe, scripturally, Christ taught that being a Christian COULD and for some WOULD be a burden. He talks about being persecuted, being hated, even being killed for being a Christian.
Look at the disciples, the Christians in Rome who were fed to the lions, all throughout history and even today in many countries where being a Christian will earn you the death penalty. And yet there's the phrase that being a Christian shouldn't be a BURDEN????? People are dying for standing for Christ and we're concerned about giving $1 of ever $10 to the church to further the cause of Christ?

Being "scared" while facing any kind of tribulation, up to and including death would be normal reaction. Dying for the cause of Christ however ushers in an eternity of Heavenly Bliss and peace. There will be no sorrow, no pain, no death, no suffering, no illness, no fear, etc.

Would I be afraid of being prosecuted for the cause of Christ? Yes indeed, but look at what's just around the corner for the faithful. No, being a Christine should not be a burden.

I think only the Catholics hold the position that we must "suffer" daily. To them, Christ is still on their cross as a constant reminder to them. These folks are working "toward" the Cross which is a constant burden to them. For us believers, we are working "from" the cross. No, it should not be a "burden" to be a Christian.

 

[freeatlast]

Whew, I have a real problem with that phrase. I believe, scripturally, Christ taught that being a Christian COULD and for some WOULD be a burden. He talks about being persecuted, being hated, even being killed for being a Christian.
Look at the disciples, the Christians in Rome who were fed to the lions, all throughout history and even today in many countries where being a Christian will earn you the death penalty. And yet there's the phrase that being a Christian shouldn't be a BURDEN????? People are dying for standing for Christ and we're concerned about giving $1 of ever $10 to the church to further the cause of Christ?

No that is not correct. Those of us who diligently seek the truth would be happy to follow the tenth giving IF that was what the NT told us to do, but it does not. At one time I did that before I read the NT. The NT goes above the giving of the Tenth. It puts the giving squarely on our shoulders of each person as a heart giving process without looking to any formula.

We alone decide what we will contribute. Any suggestion of giving a certain percentage or basing our giving on a certain amount is legalism.
Those who were under the law were told what to give. We who are under the NT are told HOW to give. Every person is to give, but we are not to give because of any pressure from the OT tithing system.

 

[freeatlast]

Even in the O.T. there is not a cut and dry tithe. There were certain tithes at certain harvests, other times you would give a different amount. It often added up to a lot more than a tithe. The OT often speaks of "tithes" (plural).

That said, I don't think there is any scriptural warrant for requiring a tithe.

That also said, I do tithe. :thumbs:

You are correct. It is a little difficult to figure out how much they were required to give, we know it was at least 20 percent but it could have been as high as 23 1/3 percent.
Also there was one tithe that they could take and spend it on having a party with strong drink. So our NT system is nothing like theirs was. Ours has nothing to do with any percent.

 

[JesusFan]

I'll just say what Paul said about giving.

"Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
2 Corinthians 9:7

The NT believe is never commanded to tithe, but is commanded to give and give cheerfully. If one wants to use the 10% principle, that's good, but not required.

The bible, thru Apostle paul, gives to us that we should give from a generous heart, right motive, and proportionally...

10% should be seen as being a good base figure, but IF God blesses one well, He also expects that person to pay back above that!