Originally posted by mman:
DHK - You just don't understand, do you. I do not think that the power is in the water. Your baptism did nothing for you. I think even you might admit that. All it did was get you wet. You were not baptized "for the remission of sins", but you were baptized because you thought your sins were already forgiven.
I do understand the Scriptures. You do not.
You do err not knowing the Scriptures, neither the power of God.
You do not believe Jesus was correct, do you? Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved". According to your belief system, the order of events should be, "He that believeth and is saved shall be baptized".
To say that I don't believe Mark 16:16 is a false allegation. I do. I don't believe your twisted interpretation of it as I have explained to you many times. Because I don't believe the same twist that you put on that verse, doesn't mean I don't believe it. This is another false allegation.
And yes the Bible plainly teaches the obvious truth:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved"
--It teaches it in hundreds of Scriptures whereas you hang your entire theology on just one or two verse in the Bible.
Biblical baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
Biblical baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16).
Biblical baptism puts us into Christ (Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-4), where there is salvation, redemption, justification, sanctifcation, forgiveness of sins through the power of His blood, and all spiritual blessings.
You put your own spin on all of those verses. You attach a meaning to them that they don't have or dont' teach. You do what Peter says:
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which
they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--You wrest the Scriptures to your own destruction.
You cannot find another way into Christ!
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
--Jesus never said that baptism was the way to Him.
Jesus is the way. I go through Christ Himself. There is no other way. What does Jesus say about going through baptism and any other way?
John 10:1-2 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
"He that enters not by the door (Christ) into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way (baptism), the same is a thief and a robber.
--Jesus Himself puts you in the category of a thief and a robber. Christ alone is the only way to salvation, not baptism.
You seem to glory in the fact that it took 2 years for you to be "baptized".
Everyone's experience is different. I was led to the Lord with a person connected with an interdenominational organization that did not put a lot of emphasis on the local church or on baptism. Was I still saved? Of course I was! It was Christ that saved me; not baptism. It wasn't til two years later when I joined a church, and learned about the importance of baptism that I was baptized. You can't deny me my of my salvation just because of your warped theology. There have been posters on this board (and may be still) who have been saved for ten to fifteen years and are still not baptized. What have you got to say for them?
Well, that certainly is not biblical, is it?
There are many things that are not Biblical. But they are matters of disobedience not matters of salvation. In Luke 18:1, for example, Jesus says that we ought
always to pray and not to faint. Paul says to pray without ceasing. Do you do that? Can you honestly say that you pray without ceasing? If not I would say that you are not saved because you fail to keep the commands of Christ. Baptism is a command of Christ--to be kept after one is saved, not before. It is like prayer. It is a command of obedience to Christ. It is a command for the Christian to keep after salvation. It never was a part of salvation and never will be.
The bible places a different importance on baptism than you do, that is evident. In Acts 2, we have 3000 being baptized the same day they heard the gospel. How long would you have streched it out? They baptized them that "same day"!
They probably prayed to. Christians pray. Christians get baptized. Both are acts of obedience. Paul, in Acts 16, went to a place "where women were gathered to pray." That is the normal thing to do for Christians after they are saved; just like baptism.
The jailer was baptized immediately. So was the eunuch. In fact, there is not one instance when anyone was told to wait. How strange, if baptism isn't important.
The jailor started a life of prayer after he was saved as well. He was saved. Then he was baptized. But he also prayed. He also did many other things a Christian should do. He went and told his family. He witnessed.
To say that baptism is because your sins were already forgiven is to say that Jesus shed his blood because people's sins had already been forgiven, since the exact same phrase is used to describe both events (Acts 2:38, Matt 26:28).
Because you don't understand the Scriptures you build a warped theology on these few verses whereas the great totality of Scripture disagrees with you. Jesus said I am the way; not baptism is the way. He calls you a thief and a robber for trying to come to heaven some other way.
You accept the meaning in Matt 26:28, but you reject and are forced to twist the same phase in Acts 2:38, because it doesn't "fit".
I accept the meaning of the verse for what it says. You do not. You have a problem with it. Your problem is with understanding.
You are forced to twist Acts 22:16 from its logical conclusion (be baptized and wash away your sins) because it doen't fit.
Here you have Paul being saved after the fact. Paul had already called upon the name of the Lord. "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?" He was saved. Now you want (according to your theology) to have him saved a second time, because you don't understand what the verse is saying.
You are forced to twist Rom 6:3-4 and Gal 3:27 from their logical conclusion because they do not "fit".
These verses speak of the symbolic nature of baptism. What does baptism symbolize? You attach a magical power to the water of baptism here and all of sudden connect yourself to magic and the occult. You might as well become a Hindu with your weird interpretation of these verses.
You are forced to twist I Pet 3:21 (Baptism now saves us) from its logical conclusion because it doesn't fit.
Again you fail to understand the verse, and take one phrase out of context, not realizing that the entire context is speaking of Jesus that saves.
You are forced to twist Mark 16:16 from its logical conclusion, because it doesn't fit.
I don't twist you do. You would have Jesus contradicting himself, who said: "I am the way."
Why don't you just have faith in what Jesus said in Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"?
Baptism is, after all, a matter of faith (Gal 3:26-27, Col 2:12).
Baptism is not a matter of faith. It is a work, a work of man. It is something that man does. You have just declared that your religion is a religion is a religion of works. It is not by grace through faith that you are saved, rather you say that you are saved by works, that is the work of baptism, and that is heresy.
DHK
