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Protestant? RCC?
- Thread starter Lone Wolf
- Start date
After I posted this I saw that several had corrected Sola which he graciously received, anyway here is the Scripture.
2 Samuel 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
[ June 02, 2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
2 Samuel 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
[ June 02, 2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
SolaScriptura
New Member
The reason why all the killing is an issue is not the character of the individuals but the prophecy that the whore will drunk with the blood of the saints. (Rev. 17) In order to identify that whore we must see who is drunk with the blood of the saints, and we immediately recognize the RCC as the whore.
Dhk:
If one follows the New Testament, it makes him a Christian.( Isaiah 62:2, Acts 11:26). It makes him a part of the saved.( Acts 2:47). It makes him a member of the church that belongs to Christ.(Mat. 16:18). One can read of Christians and Christ's church in the Bible.
However, you will not read of Calvinists, or any other ist or ism in the Bible. You can find them posted on man made websites.
Furthermore, the Bible and history prove the existence of the church before Campbell. You just ignore both.If you doubt the veracity of the evidence, do something refreshing, search it out for yourself.( Acts 17:11). Read the Bible! Research the county records!
Frank
If one follows the New Testament, it makes him a Christian.( Isaiah 62:2, Acts 11:26). It makes him a part of the saved.( Acts 2:47). It makes him a member of the church that belongs to Christ.(Mat. 16:18). One can read of Christians and Christ's church in the Bible.
However, you will not read of Calvinists, or any other ist or ism in the Bible. You can find them posted on man made websites.
Furthermore, the Bible and history prove the existence of the church before Campbell. You just ignore both.If you doubt the veracity of the evidence, do something refreshing, search it out for yourself.( Acts 17:11). Read the Bible! Research the county records!
Frank
The church certainly existed before Campbell, but not in the form of the "Churches of Christ." The Baptists have an honorable heritage. If you want to learn more about it, you are welcome to acquaint yourself with the Baptist History forum. You might learn some valuable things there. As for Cambell, I believe Kiffin answered you very well. I'll post it again for you:
"I do not defame the name of Campbell. He did that his ownself. The "Churches of Christ" has their origin in the 1800's and represent a departure from the Apostolic faith in his teaching of Pelagian theology. Campbell built his Church by prosteyling among Baptists (like a wolf in the sheepfold). As one critic of Cambell correctly noted Alexander Campbell stand as an example of the consequences of sincere and enthusiastic ignorance of Scripture." (Kiffin)
dhk:
The fact of the matter is that the church of Christ began in Acts 2. The church of Christ was in America before Campbell ever set foot on her soil.You can search today and for a thousand years and NEVER find any other church in the New Testament but the church of Christ.( Acts 2:38,47, Col. 1:12,13, Romans 16:16, Acts 20:28,I Thes. 2:14, Hebs. 3;6, I Tim. 3:15, Eph. 1: 22,23, Col. 1:18,19, Hebrews 10:23).
Frank
The fact of the matter is that the church of Christ began in Acts 2. The church of Christ was in America before Campbell ever set foot on her soil.You can search today and for a thousand years and NEVER find any other church in the New Testament but the church of Christ.( Acts 2:38,47, Col. 1:12,13, Romans 16:16, Acts 20:28,I Thes. 2:14, Hebs. 3;6, I Tim. 3:15, Eph. 1: 22,23, Col. 1:18,19, Hebrews 10:23).
Frank
Rom 16:16 "Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you."
The term "Church of Christ" is found nowhere in the Bible. The term "churches of Christ" is found only in Romans 16:16, and it certainly does not refer to your cult. Paul taught the opposite of what you believe and opposed what you believe. He taught that salvation was by grace through faith, and that no works (like baptism) were involved at all--lest anyone should boast about it. You can read all about it in his letter to the Ephesians. The churches he was referring to when he used the term "churches of Christ" were primarily churches that he had started on his three missionary journeys. He, in his travels, had established over 100 churches. He did not establish the "Church of Christ." He established many churches. They were local churches, assemblies, or congregations, each one independent of the other. There was no denomination. There was no Cambellism. Your church (cult) is hardly 200 years old. And it is certainly not traceable to the Apostles. The Apostles did not teach baptismal regeneration; you do. The apostles did not teach a works--salvation; you do. Your church or cult has a definite history that dates no further than 200 years, and cannot be backed up with the Scripture that you continuously pull out of context.
DHK
Lone Wolf stated,
The "Churches of Christ" or Cambellites have their origins with Campbell. That is fact and not propaganda made up history. Using COC logic, they would have to admit that the Church died for 1,800 years and that all of Christianity was fake since nobody held to their doctrine until all of a sudden, this renegade Baptist/Presbyterian comes up with the idea that he alone has the truth.
Could you please point out where Calvin literaly murdered somebody.
The "Churches of Christ" or Cambellites have their origins with Campbell. That is fact and not propaganda made up history. Using COC logic, they would have to admit that the Church died for 1,800 years and that all of Christianity was fake since nobody held to their doctrine until all of a sudden, this renegade Baptist/Presbyterian comes up with the idea that he alone has the truth.
Lone Wolf,
I know nothing of Calvin's perscution of Catholics and the Anabaptists, though his warped view of Church/State saw the State as enforcing Christian doctrine and would not have opposed theem being jailed. On that he was wrong and yes he did not oppose the Geneva city council's burning of Servetus and he was wrong on that.
You continue to look at man however. To judge Calvin simply on his failure to stop Servetus burning is only one part of his life. Was Old Testament Israel God's Covenant people invalid because Abraham had a illegitimate son? Samson playing with prostitutes? or David having more than one wife? Solomon's idolatry? yet all these me were saints who did some very bad things at time just as Calvin, Luther did. The Church is made up of imperfect people and the perfect Church you will not find here on earth because all of us sin.
I know nothing of Calvin's perscution of Catholics and the Anabaptists, though his warped view of Church/State saw the State as enforcing Christian doctrine and would not have opposed theem being jailed. On that he was wrong and yes he did not oppose the Geneva city council's burning of Servetus and he was wrong on that.
You continue to look at man however. To judge Calvin simply on his failure to stop Servetus burning is only one part of his life. Was Old Testament Israel God's Covenant people invalid because Abraham had a illegitimate son? Samson playing with prostitutes? or David having more than one wife? Solomon's idolatry? yet all these me were saints who did some very bad things at time just as Calvin, Luther did. The Church is made up of imperfect people and the perfect Church you will not find here on earth because all of us sin.
The burning of Servetus was the greatest blight on Calvin's life. Calvin persecuted those who did not agree with him. Furthermore this one act eventually led to a philosophy or attitude that would end up in some of the most horrid persecutions in history, all in the name of Protestantism.
The burning of Servetus and the decretum horribile are sufficient in the judgment of a large part of the Christian world to condemn him and his theology, but cannot destroy the rocky foundation of his rare virtues and lasting merits. History knows only of one spotless being?the Saviour of sinners. Human greatness and purity are spotted by marks of infirmity, which forbid idolatry. Large bodies cast large shadows, and great virtues are often coupled with great vices. (Schaff, Ch.16)
Calvin felt himself called by Divine Providence to purify the Church of all corruptions, and to bring her back to the Christianity of Christ, and regarded Servetus as a servant of Antichrist, who aimed at the destruction of Christianity. Servetus was equally confident of a divine call, and even identified himself with the archangel Michael in his apocalyptic fight against the dragon of Rome and "the Simon Magus of Geneva." (Schaff, Book III, Ch. 16)
DHK
The burning of Servetus and the decretum horribile are sufficient in the judgment of a large part of the Christian world to condemn him and his theology, but cannot destroy the rocky foundation of his rare virtues and lasting merits. History knows only of one spotless being?the Saviour of sinners. Human greatness and purity are spotted by marks of infirmity, which forbid idolatry. Large bodies cast large shadows, and great virtues are often coupled with great vices. (Schaff, Ch.16)
Calvin felt himself called by Divine Providence to purify the Church of all corruptions, and to bring her back to the Christianity of Christ, and regarded Servetus as a servant of Antichrist, who aimed at the destruction of Christianity. Servetus was equally confident of a divine call, and even identified himself with the archangel Michael in his apocalyptic fight against the dragon of Rome and "the Simon Magus of Geneva." (Schaff, Book III, Ch. 16)
DHK
Lone Wolf,
Can you show me where ever believer before they die, repents of every single individual sin they commit over a lifetime? If we die after we speeded on the highway or told a white lie we forgot about, do we go to Heaven? You are looking for a Church that cannot be found on earth.
[ June 03, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Kiffin ]
Can you show me where ever believer before they die, repents of every single individual sin they commit over a lifetime? If we die after we speeded on the highway or told a white lie we forgot about, do we go to Heaven? You are looking for a Church that cannot be found on earth.
[ June 03, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Kiffin ]
SolaScriptura
New Member
(Acts 8:22 KJV) Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
The person to whom Peter is speaking here is someone who already became a Christian.
(Acts 8:13 KJV) Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Simon Magus was a believer - he was a Christian - but he fell away! He fell WAY WAY AWAY! AND you cannot say that he was a mere professor because the Bible specifically says "Simon himself believed." HE WAS A BELIEVER!
Even so, he fell away into "gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." (Acts 8:23) AND Peter told him "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee."
Now, history shows us that he never did this! In fact, we find that Justin Martyr speaks of Simon Magus declaring himself to be the Holy Spirit in some places and in other declaring himself to be the Son and in others still the Father - he claimed he was God! But, yet, at one time he had been a true believer, for the Bible says "Simon himself believed also." WHAT THEN? A believer can lost his salvation.
The person to whom Peter is speaking here is someone who already became a Christian.
(Acts 8:13 KJV) Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Simon Magus was a believer - he was a Christian - but he fell away! He fell WAY WAY AWAY! AND you cannot say that he was a mere professor because the Bible specifically says "Simon himself believed." HE WAS A BELIEVER!
Even so, he fell away into "gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." (Acts 8:23) AND Peter told him "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee."
Now, history shows us that he never did this! In fact, we find that Justin Martyr speaks of Simon Magus declaring himself to be the Holy Spirit in some places and in other declaring himself to be the Son and in others still the Father - he claimed he was God! But, yet, at one time he had been a true believer, for the Bible says "Simon himself believed also." WHAT THEN? A believer can lost his salvation.
posted June 03, 2002 11:38 PM
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Acts 8:22 KJV Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
The person to whom Peter is speaking here is someone who already became a Christian.
Acts 8:13 KJV Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
>>>The Devils also believe and tremble<<<
Simon Magus was a believer - he was a Christian - but he fell away! He fell WAY WAY AWAY! AND you cannot say that he was a mere professor because the Bible specifically says "Simon himself believed." HE WAS A BELIEVER!
>>>Where does the Bible state that he had any spiritual life? He gave an outward expression of faith, however, his response to seeing the power of the Holy Ghost shows a total lack of any spiritual life<<<
Even so, he fell away into "gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." Acts 8:23 AND Peter told him "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee."
>>>Where does the Bible say he fell away<<<
Now, history shows us that he never did this! In fact, we find that Justin Martyr speaks of Simon Magus declaring himself to be the Holy Spirit in some places and in other declaring himself to be the Son and in others still the Father - he claimed he was God! But, yet, at one time he had been a true believer, for the Bible says "Simon himself believed also." WHAT THEN? A believer can lost his salvation.
>>>By claiming to be the Holy Spirit, he commited the highest blasphemy one can commit. The fact that he claimed to be the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God proves that he could not possibly be a true believer. Matthew 12:31-32 "Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy agains the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven him. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Herod claimed to be God, look what happened to him. No true believer will claim to be God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Simon was an evil sorcerer who desired to use the Holy Ghost for his own gain.
Sure, he was a believer. Uh-huh. Yep, what a great example. A blasphemer no less.
LW
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Acts 8:22 KJV Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
The person to whom Peter is speaking here is someone who already became a Christian.
Acts 8:13 KJV Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
>>>The Devils also believe and tremble<<<
Simon Magus was a believer - he was a Christian - but he fell away! He fell WAY WAY AWAY! AND you cannot say that he was a mere professor because the Bible specifically says "Simon himself believed." HE WAS A BELIEVER!
>>>Where does the Bible state that he had any spiritual life? He gave an outward expression of faith, however, his response to seeing the power of the Holy Ghost shows a total lack of any spiritual life<<<
Even so, he fell away into "gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." Acts 8:23 AND Peter told him "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee."
>>>Where does the Bible say he fell away<<<
Now, history shows us that he never did this! In fact, we find that Justin Martyr speaks of Simon Magus declaring himself to be the Holy Spirit in some places and in other declaring himself to be the Son and in others still the Father - he claimed he was God! But, yet, at one time he had been a true believer, for the Bible says "Simon himself believed also." WHAT THEN? A believer can lost his salvation.
>>>By claiming to be the Holy Spirit, he commited the highest blasphemy one can commit. The fact that he claimed to be the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God proves that he could not possibly be a true believer. Matthew 12:31-32 "Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy agains the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven him. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Herod claimed to be God, look what happened to him. No true believer will claim to be God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Simon was an evil sorcerer who desired to use the Holy Ghost for his own gain.
Sure, he was a believer. Uh-huh. Yep, what a great example. A blasphemer no less.
LW
My answer was not satisfactory for you? By your own admission, Simon was a wicked, evil blasphemer who went to hell when he died. He blasphemed the Holy Spirit, the sin that cannot be forgiven to man.
No, I do not believe that one can attain sinless perfection. However, many call Calvin a great "Christian". He was not a Christian, he was a murderer.
My Church? I currently do not have one. I am seeking a church.
For more info, see the Post that I started giving information about myself.
LW
No, I do not believe that one can attain sinless perfection. However, many call Calvin a great "Christian". He was not a Christian, he was a murderer.
My Church? I currently do not have one. I am seeking a church.
For more info, see the Post that I started giving information about myself.
LW
Calvin murdered Servetus, as I stated above. He also persecuted others. But so did Luther. So did Anglicans, and far worse than either Calvin or Luther. That is the result of having a state-church, which Calvin established in Geneva. Wherever a state church is established, there is no tolerance given to the dissenters of the established church, and thus persecution.
The only ones who have historically stood for soul liberty have been the Baptists. They have been the persecuted, and yet have advocated tolerance and freedom of religion all along. They are the only ones that have been consistent in this area. The reason for this is that Baptists were not Protestants. Baptists were not reformers. They were never a part of the Catholic Church. The reformers tried to reform the Catholic Church from within; they never left the Church, until they were forced or excommunicated, as Luther was. Baptists were never in the Catholic Church to begin with. As for Calvin, I believe that he was a saved man. Most of the atrocities were committed in the wars that followed that involved the Calvinists, his followers.
DHK