Proud Boys Charged with Sedition in Capitol Attack

[canadyjd]

So is there any independent nation today which is not conceived in sin and apart from God?

Well, I don’t know about all the nations on the planet. I don’t know.

However, can you honestly look at the conditions in this country and claim we have embraced God? Was there ever a time in this nations history when we were?

peace to you

 

[Alcott]

The British government lost its legitimacy because it violated people’s God given Rights, it was no longer government.

Then any scripture reference to peoples' relation to government has no meaning. All anyone has to do is say "it's not government."

 

[FollowTheWay]

The British government lost its legitimacy because it violated people’s God given Rights, it was no longer government.

God given rights must be defined in the Bible not a constitution. Where in the Bible do you find the God given right to carry guns?

 

[Alcott]

God given rights must be defined in the Bible not a constitution. Where in the Bible do you find the God given right to carry guns?

The Bible says nothing about guns. Where in the Bible do you find the right to use a computer?

 

[Conan]

God given rights must be defined in the Bible not a constitution. Where in the Bible do you find the God given right to carry guns?

The same right the ancient Israelites carried weapons for self defense. Swords, spears, bows, slings, staves and clubs. Axes. Knives.

 

[FollowTheWay]

The same right the ancient Israelites carried weapons for self defense. Swords, spears, bows, slings, staves and clubs. Axes. Knives.

What Jesus said is far more important than what the ancient Israelites did.

[Mat 5:9 KJV] 9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

[Mat 5:38-39 KJV] 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Paul on peace
[Rom 12:17-21 KJV] 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[FollowTheWay]

The Bible says nothing about guns. Where in the Bible do you find the right to use a computer?

The New Testament tells us how to deal with violence in general.

[Mat 5:9 KJV] 9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

[Mat 5:38-39 KJV] 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Paul on peace
[Rom 12:17-21 KJV] 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[Alcott]

The New Testament tells us how to deal with violence in general.


I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive any of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her offenses. Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, to the same extent give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning [Revelation 18:4-7].

 

[Conan]

The New Testament tells us how to deal with violence in general.

[Mat 5:9 KJV] 9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

[Mat 5:38-39 KJV] 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Paul on peace
[Rom 12:17-21 KJV] 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

So if some criminal, who has violently hurt others, sees you as a target, and means you violence; you think you cannot defend yourself with a weapon?

 

[FollowTheWay]

So if some criminal, who has violently hurt others, sees you as a target, and means you violence; you think you cannot defend yourself with a weapon?

In reasonable countries like the UK and Sweden, neither one of you would be armed. Sure, he might hit you in the face or pull out a knife. I don't have a real problem with carrying a pocket knife. Can you murder 20 people in 3 min. with a knife?

 

[FollowTheWay]

The Bible says nothing about guns. Where in the Bible do you find the right to use a computer?

I didn't claim that having a computer, car, airplane, refrigerator is a God-given right. Are you claiming that?

 

[atpollard]

So is there any independent nation today which is not conceived in sin and apart from God?

Israel?

(not that they are following God, just that He appears to have had a hand in the “conception” of the modern nation)

 

[atpollard]

In reasonable countries like the UK and Sweden, neither one of you would be armed. Sure, he might hit you in the face or pull out a knife. I don't have a real problem with carrying a pocket knife. Can you murder 20 people in 3 min. with a knife?

You should ban cars then.

 

[Conan]

In reasonable countries like the UK and Sweden, neither one of you would be armed. Sure, he might hit you in the face or pull out a knife. I don't have a real problem with carrying a pocket knife. Can you murder 20 people in 3 min. with a knife?

I can't. But an expert can easily. Look at the 9/11 highjackers. Not only did they kill everyone in 4 comercial airliners, they killed most people in the twin towers and people in the pentagon. And all they had were box cutters. Not even as lethal as a knife. And what did you nuts do but ban knives? The next group of highjackers would have been knifed by passengers. Now they only have 1 air marshal to overcome.

Oh, and by the way, there have never been 20 people murdered in 3 minutes in America. A knife excels at lethality . A person could stab many more people in a short time by a dedicated nut job. Everyone hears a gun shot right away.

 

[atpollard]

A charge of seditious conspiracy requires prosecutors to prove that force was used either to overthrow the government or to interfere with the execution of federal law.

I have to wonder about “force”.

I only saw one man with a gun (handgun) in the videos of the chaos in the Capitol Building, and the gun was never drawn. I saw lots of “trespassing” and “vandalism” and I can see the charge of “interfering” (since that was clearly the intent of many, but not necessarily all of the individuals in the videos).

However, “using force to interfere with the execution of federal law” applied to “pushing” and a police vs mob fist fight as “sedition” is a terrible … really terrible … precedent. Imagine if every time the Capitol Police order a group of protestors to disperse and any shoving occurs the charge is “sedition”?

Imagine that was a pro-choice protest in front of the White House and President Bush or Trump ordered the protesters charged with sedition. I am largely indifferent to the fate of the “Proud Boys”. What concerns me is when people that should know better create dangerous political weapons that both sides will employ again down the road. Attempting to overthrow the government should be reserved for actual armed attempts to overthrow the government.

This is bad law and worse precedent. Just like the politicized abuse of Presidential Impeachments in the last few decades.