Proverbs 31:4-7. Drinking not for kings?

[Darrell C]

Did Jesus drink wine? Was He called a winebibber?

Don't disagree with u about John the Baptist. Same was for Samson's mother, too. And also Samson...

Did Jesus get drunk, as they charged? And where did they get the charge? Why would they revile drunkenness?

So tell me...why do people in our culture imbibe?

Is our water in need of being purified by wine? Did Christ drink wine for entertainment?

I would venture a guess that Christ understood men in their weakness, and did not revile those that drank, as many people do. However...reviling someone because they don't drink for the specific reason of not relinquishing self control nor giving Satan an entrance, nor giving occasion for Christ to be mocked by those outside of the Church seeing someone drink and considering them to be hypocrites?

And unbelievers do, you know. They have a higher standard for the Church than the Church oftentimes has herself. And while we understand our liberty in Christ, they do not, and that just opens the door for more confusion.


God bless.

 

[annsni]

I have to laugh at the "no one drinks for the taste" comment. I guess you can say the same for coffee. Why does anyone want to drink a cup of coffee? Because of the drug effect (more aware and awake) and the relaxation it gives.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
I guess you missed this guy:


Luke 1:11-17

King James Version (KJV)

11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


Check it out some time...his name is John.

That's right.....And Samson was told not to cut his hair....so do you cut your hair?

I used to have long hair when I played music, but not long after I was saved I cut it off. Went for a number of years getting haircuts from barbers, which I always had to go home and cut off what they missed, so then I just started cutting my own hair.

Got a buzz cut for the heck of it once and I have never gone back.

I work in attics that range from 100 to 140 degrees, and it is just the best cut for that kind of work. Not only that, but I occasionally wear a stocking cap in the winter, and a buzz cut is not affected like a regular haircut might be.

It is interesting that what is likely observance of the Nazirite Vow shows this:


Acts 21:21-27

King James Version (KJV)

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,


While I am being conformed tot he image of Christ, emulating Paul is a reasonable goal as well.



Besides:


1 Corinthians 11:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


And this is where the hippies among us may offer similar arguments as yours in defense of drinking alcohol:


"Did Jesus have long hair?"

I don't know, Scripture is silent about it, and creating theology from extra-biblical sources is best left to Catholics and Historicists.

BTW....do you follow John or do you follow Jesus?

I follow all three in the sense that both John the Apostle and John the Baptist were mighty men of God used in some of the most important work God ever accomplished through men.

But I worship only God.

There is a distinction.

And both of these two fellows cannot be questioned as to their doctrine, with the exception of perhaps John's ( the Baptist) uncertainty as to whether Christ was the Promised Messiah. And that is the only fault that can be laid on John...the original Baptist.

Doesn't it make you wish there was a John the Historicist somewhere in there?

Oh, a Catholic, eh?

NOPE...not even close.

Closer than you might think.

However Hank did mention that the Jesuits 1st started that innocence about rapture (just for your edification, Jesuits are Catholic priests and in some respects you remind me of them).

See?

Always quoting men, never Scripture.

How very catholic of you.

There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, and that is the Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

[

Well Duh.......

Could you show me where that theological term is found in Scripture?

Bet I can find more verses that warn against drinking than you can that advocate it.

So tell me, exactly what is the reason you give for drinking yourself?

Ever get drunk?




Could be.

It will be, I believe, from among Orthodox Jewry that the 144,000 will be chosen.

What other Orthodox practices do you also feel is right in the sight of God?


God bless.

I'll assume that you agree with the points.


God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Never assume....you know the rest of the story right?

 

[Darrell C]

I have to laugh at the "no one drinks for the taste" comment. I guess you can say the same for coffee. Why does anyone want to drink a cup of coffee? Because of the drug effect (more aware and awake) and the relaxation it gives.

I would agree for the most part. But, if you go back I am pretty sure I mentioned people tasting it for the first time. That is the context.

When I was a kid my grandfather and I would have "Coffee and toast," which was coffee with milk and sugar poured over toast (try it before dismissing it). When Coffee is prepared that way we could see that there is no intention of a child to wake himself up (can't speak for my granpa) and the taste is modified to something even a kid could like.

Now say that about liquor. Tell me the first time you drank a shot of liquor you said "Boy that's good."

One has to acquire a taste for it, and eventually, the taste might be desired. I know when I drank, the only one I ever thought was tolerable was tequila. I had a guy I was doing a job for give me two bottles of some fruit wine that was the best tasting wine I ever had, but it didn't taste at all like the wines I had before. Beer, well, the only time I remember thinking "That tasted great" was on a hot day when a neighbor handed me a Miller straight from the cooler, but when I started drinking it (because band members did, and it looked cool to a 13 year old)...I didn't think much of the taste.

So tell me, did you, when you first tasted alcohol...think it tasted good. If your first taste was like the wine I had that one time, I could understand, but is that the case?

And going back to coffee...coffee does not alter the mind, usually, unless over indulged in, which is excess, and I don't think anyone is advocating excess in anything like that.

Still laughing?

God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have to laugh at the "no one drinks for the taste" comment. I guess you can say the same for coffee. Why does anyone want to drink a cup of coffee? Because of the drug effect (more aware and awake) and the relaxation it gives.

What do you expect of tea totalers

 

[Darrell C]

Never assume....you know the rest of the story right?

I do. And I speculate that this is an occasion where Paul made a mistake. Because the Jews were still observing sacrifice which could, in my view, be misconstrued as indicating Jews still had to do that. While I have no problem with Jews observing traditional ceremonies, the context is specifically in relation to the Law itself, and again, I speculate that Paul's imprisonment may have been a result of what may have been weakness on Paul's part.

I always want to say, "No Paul! Don't do that! Give it to 'em straight! Tell them you will not meet their demands and participate. Tell them that there is a reason why the issue is controversial."

But he never does.

Though I think it is highly likely that eventually he does in a letter, also known as the Epistle to the Hebrews.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

What do you expect of tea totalers

What does the world expect of Christians?


God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What does the world expect of Christians?


God bless.

Nothing...the world could care less

 

[Don]

Then I must also be self righteous because I also advocate a "no alcohol" ideal.

I really see no reason for Christians to indulge. I don't judge those who do, but that does not mean I would not be "shocked" to learn of a "Christian" buying a bottle of liquor if the context was not presented as being used for something other than a beverage known to alter one's mind.




Just how much vanilla extract do you partake of, my friend?

And just how much alcohol is in the usual half to teaspoon of vanilla that is also accompanied by a vast percentage more of ingredients that are not intoxicating?




It sounds a little more like you feel you set her straight.

So what is your Pastor's views on the subject?




So it was you wife that set her straight.




Well, they vanilla is better when its aged.




God bless.

Lok, here's the deal: the position was "no alcohol ever, period." The position came out of ignorance that many of our ingredients contain some amount of alcohol. This information confused the individual, who was unaware of this. This individual was further educated--not "set straight"--that the alcohol is burned off during the cooking.

I don't indulge; I don't encourage others to indulge. Romans 14 is my guideline: I will not be a stumbling block to others. But I also will not judge a fellow Christian who views the situation differently than I do, unless it's leading to sin.

 

[Darrell C]

Nothing...the world could care less

You really need to get out more often.

The truth is that many professing atheists have a better idea of the holiness God expects from His People than professing Christians do.

There is an old saying, "The single greatest cause of Atheism is...Christians."

And that is very true, because Atheists do no understand that salvation is not a conversion to a temporally perfect Saint, but the beginning of a growth process which unfortunately for most of us...takes years before we finally start understanding God's desire that His People be holy...because He is Holy.

You could understand that better by speaking to atheists. While guys at the bar might be more amenable, then atheists can teach you, and me, a thing or two of what the watching, dying world...expects.

They see the standard without the escape clause mentality of greasy grace. They see the behavior, efforts, and accomplishment of the Early Church. But it is Church History that brings about the charge of hypocrisy. They are more apt to quote Church Fathers with the intent of showing their transgressions so they can say, "If these men were saved...I want no part of that."

And they are right sometimes. But, again, they have a false premise in nearly every Apologetic they have, and for us to give them justification for anything is reprehensible.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Lok, here's the deal: the position was "no alcohol ever, period." The position came out of ignorance that many of our ingredients contain some amount of alcohol. This information confused the individual, who was unaware of this. This individual was further educated--not "set straight"--that the alcohol is burned off during the cooking.

I don't indulge; I don't encourage others to indulge. Romans 14 is my guideline: I will not be a stumbling block to others. But I also will not judge a fellow Christian who views the situation differently than I do, unless it's leading to sin.

So you think I am in error to see a "leading to sin" in this exchange...

Originally Posted by Don View Post
My pastor's wife was shocked to hear we had bought a bottle of liquor. My wife told her that we were making our own vanilla extract. Of course, there was the "oh, really?" look; so since we were at her house anyway, my wife used the pastor's wife's own bottle of vanilla extract to show her that alcohol was a major ingredient.

If anyone's interested, a 16 ounce bottle of vanilla extract is around $8-$9; a liter bottle of cheap liquor and 3-5 vanilla sticks is less than $5.

Why should she be shocked....ahh, on 2nd thought...forget it.

...?

And...don't call me Lok.


God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Lok, here's the deal: the position was "no alcohol ever, period." The position came out of ignorance that many of our ingredients contain some amount of alcohol. This information confused the individual, who was unaware of this. This individual was further educated--not "set straight"--that the alcohol is burned off during the cooking.

I don't indulge; I don't encourage others to indulge. Romans 14 is my guideline: I will not be a stumbling block to others. But I also will not judge a fellow Christian who views the situation differently than I do, unless it's leading to sin.

See, if you tried a Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Lager...brewed in the UK, you'd swear that angels made it. The taste is fantastic....that is if you like a good beer!:laugh:

 

[Darrell C]

See, if you tried a Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Lager...brewed in the UK, you'd swear that angels made it. The taste is fantastic....that is if you like a good beer!:laugh:

My brother likes Guiness Stout. I am curious about how that tastes, never having tried it.

Should I satisfy that desire to know what it tastes like?


God bless.

 

[annsni]

When I was a kid my grandfather and I would have "Coffee and toast," which was coffee with milk and sugar poured over toast (try it before dismissing it). When Coffee is prepared that way we could see that there is no intention of a child to wake himself up (can't speak for my granpa) and the taste is modified to something even a kid could like.

See, I didn't let my kids have coffee until high school because I didn't want them to get the "wake-ups" from it. I also didn't let them have soda with caffeine either. Why would someone want to give their kid coffee if it is something that alters you?

Now say that about liquor. Tell me the first time you drank a shot of liquor you said "Boy that's good."

So tell me, did you, when you first tasted alcohol...think it tasted good. If your first taste was like the wine I had that one time, I could understand, but is that the case?

My first taste was a scotch and soda (Irish family) and I never remember NOT liking it. I could drink that like it's soda but I only used to drink one because I never wanted to be buzzed by it. But man, that was good!

And going back to coffee...coffee does not alter the mind, usually, unless over indulged in, which is excess, and I don't think anyone is advocating excess in anything like that.

Still laughing?

God bless.

Coffee doesn't alter the mind? Science disagrees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YOwEqGykDM

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

See, I didn't let my kids have coffee until high school because I didn't want them to get the "wake-ups" from it. I also didn't let them have soda with caffeine either. Why would someone want to give their kid coffee if it is something that alters you?



My first taste was a scotch and soda (Irish family) and I never remember NOT liking it. I could drink that like it's soda but I only used to drink one because I never wanted to be buzzed by it. But man, that was good!



Coffee doesn't alter the mind? Science disagrees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YOwEqGykDM

Single malt? Only drink single malt. Then what do you use for shots.......my personal favorite is rye.Rye is dry.

 

[Don]

So you think I am in error to see a "leading to sin" in this exchange...

No; why do you come to that conclusion?

...?

And...don't call me Lok.


God bless.

Meant to be "look." Typing too fast on my phone.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My brother likes Guiness Stout. I am curious about how that tastes, never having tried it.

Should I satisfy that desire to know what it tastes like?


God bless.

My complements to your brother....But Iperfer the draft....you can buy them in cans 4 pack. I usually have that Saturday mornings instead of coffee....Very good taste....I liked it immediately.....course im not a drunk so I can stop at one and be satisfied. Didn't you ID that you are an alcoholic....so no I wouldn't advise it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And yet Jesus turned water into wine and drank wine...

Not a drinker in the least, but teetotalism is foreign to the bible, imo of course...

You really need to get out more often.

The truth is that many professing atheists have a better idea of the holiness God expects from His People than professing Christians do.

There is an old saying, "The single greatest cause of Atheism is...Christians."

And that is very true, because Atheists do no understand that salvation is not a conversion to a temporally perfect Saint, but the beginning of a growth process which unfortunately for most of us...takes years before we finally start understanding God's desire that His People be holy...because He is Holy.

You could understand that better by speaking to atheists. While guys at the bar might be more amenable, then atheists can teach you, and me, a thing or two of what the watching, dying world...expects.

They see the standard without the escape clause mentality of greasy grace. They see the behavior, efforts, and accomplishment of the Early Church. But it is Church History that brings about the charge of hypocrisy. They are more apt to quote Church Fathers with the intent of showing their transgressions so they can say, "If these men were saved...I want no part of that."

And they are right sometimes. But, again, they have a false premise in nearly every Apologetic they have, and for us to give them justification for anything is reprehensible.


God bless.

Wow.....you really think you got a lock on it don't you! How old are you? You know jack! I live in northern NJ where everyone is either a Jew (you should love that) or a Catholic...70% or an aethiest .....and they believe they have one.......evidenced by the lack of Baptist churches....or any church of any spiritual substance. And they are right. There is nary a presence of any significant stripe. So they don't care. Your no and I mean no threat to them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh I forgot.....we got the muzzies moving in too. Go try talking to them.