Proverbs 31:6-7. Specific Command or general principle?

[JerryL]

Problem is, many want to mock and reject the promises and truths in the Word of God. If we can explain away sin in our lives, we feel much more better about committing it without fear of condemnation.

If we can change the wills and will nots to mights or won'ts, we place ourselves in a higher position than God Himself.

I choose to believe the wills and will nots. The ones I do not understand does not make them any less a promise any more than the ones others change to cover their guilt make them any less a promise.

God said it, that settles it whether I believe it or not. But I do believe it.

Ok, then answer the thread as it is asked. Proverbs 31:6-7 is a direct command(according to your way) and a direct promise of what will incur as a result of someone keeping the command. Is it literal or principle? Only the literal, command, promise crowd needs to answer. Do you keep that commandment?

 

[Dale-c]

Then you also know that man adds what is needed for fermentation?

PK, as the other poster said, this is not meant to be an alcohol thread. It is a thread about how to apply the Proverbs.

It points to the dichotomy though that SFIC has repeatedly stated that both alcohol is wrong at all times for all reasons and that Proverbs are to be taken literally as either promises or commands.

Oh, and as has already been shown, grapes make wine naturally.

Other fruits must have yeast added to them.

God made grapes to make wine.
It is a fascinating study actually. It really shows God's handiwork.

But back to the topic at hand, is this a command or a principle and how would you apply it?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Jerry, search the archives for that verse. I have answered it in the past and it was rejected. My stance has not changed.

 

[Dale-c]

Only the literal, command, promise crowd needs to answer.

That is who this is directed at.

Just a point to ponder...how is it different to give a dying person morphine?
My uncle did a study when his parents died (both of cancer) and found that most people die not from cancer but from morphine overdoses.
he said they give increasing amounts of morphine (a drug for those that do not know) for the pain until that kills them.

So back to the question:

Is this verse literal?

 

[Dale-c]

Jerry, search the archives for that verse. I have answered it in the past and it was rejected. My stance has not changed.

Then you should remember what it was.
Do you believe this is a literal verse?

 

[tinytim]

Proverbs are promises at times and principles at others...
Just like wine is wine at times and Juice at others...

The only way to know the difference is to guess...
Unless you are very special... then you know.
Of course if you know, then all others are wrong..
And if they are wrong about that, then they can't be trusted...
And if they can't be trusted, then you have to question everything they say....
And ... so on, until you are the only person (along with your family) that is right in your sight.

It is the trap that Phelps has fallen into. Only he and his family are right in his eyes...
When the whole lot of Christendom stands against you, something is wrong with you...
For Christ resides in Christians.
But people find comfort in being persecuted... they become martyrs...
The problem is they are persecuted from Christians... for being wrong.
Not the world... which is who Christ said will persecute us.

Some just never get it.

 

[Dale-c]

When the whole lot of Christendom stands against you, something is wrong with you...

The majority is not always right and that is not how we decide what is right or wrong. But I will not believe a doctrine that has not been believed throughout history.
Any doctrine that is new to the modern church is something we should rethink and be REALLY sure before believing. If all the CHURCH is against you then something is certainly wrong.

If all hte world who hates Christ is against you then that is to be expected.
But if it is the church, then take a look at your own doctrine.

Back to the question, SFIC, why do you not have an answer for this?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

When the whole lot of Christendom stands against you, something is wrong with you...

Or Christ has given you a truth that the whole lot of Christiandom has rejected.

 

[Dale-c]

Or Christ has given you a truth that the whole lot of Christiandom has rejected.

I do think that is THE most self righteous and arrogant statement you have EVER stated.
THE WHOLE lot of Christendom has rejected but ONE person is THE faithful one.

But back to the OP, what is your position on this verse?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

[QUOTE=tinytim] When the whole lot of Christendom stands against you, something is wrong with you...[/QUOTE]

I did not realize that the whole lot of Christiandom was found on the Baptist Board.

Hate to break your bubble, tim, but there thousands of Christians out there who have never been on the BB. And I am sure there are thousands out there that take God at His Word and believe His promises to be true as well.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I do think that is THE most self righteous and arrogant statement you have EVER stated.
THE WHOLE lot of Christendom has rejected but ONE person is THE faithful one.

But back to the OP, what is your position on this verse?

Not self-righteous at all. I would say it is a self-righteous statement to think all of Christiandom is disagreeing with one who is clothed in Christ's righteousness and standing on His promises as true.

 

[gb93433]

Or Christ has given you a truth that the whole lot of Christiandom has rejected.

It has happened. At one time the acceptable method of interpretation was allegorical.

A lot of the work done in Hebrew poetry was done in the ealy 1900s about 1930 or so. Before that, little was known about Hebrew poetry.

At one time, NT Greek was called Holy Ghost Greek by some, until others began to study extarabiblical documents, and see the same words were used in society by the general public.

 

[gb93433]

Jerry, search the archives for that verse. I have answered it in the past and it was rejected. My stance has not changed.

Could you tell me where to search for it because I am curious where to find it.

What would you do if you knew that non-Christians who are curious about the subject read what you just wrote?

 

[Bible-boy]

Problem is, many want to mock and reject the promises and truths in the Word of God. If we can explain away sin in our lives, we feel much more better about committing it without fear of condemnation.

If we can change the wills and will nots to mights or won'ts, we place ourselves in a higher position than God Himself.

I choose to believe the wills and will nots. The ones I do not understand does not make them any less a promise any more than the ones others change to cover their guilt make them any less a promise.

God said it, that settles it whether I believe it or not. But I do believe it.

I would argue that the problem comes from our relying solely on an English translation and being unwilling to put in the long hours and hard work required to learn the biblical languages, and then building a doctrinal stance based solely on that English translation and holding to it dogmatically.

 

[tinytim]

I did not realize that the whole lot of Christiandom was found on the Baptist Board.

Hate to break your bubble, tim, but there thousands of Christians out there who have never been on the BB. And I am sure there are thousands out there that take God at His Word and believe His promises to be true as well.

No bubble bursting here...

But, if someone states something that does not line up with 2000 yrs of orthodox Christianity... it has to be questioned.
BB may not be the whole of Christendom, but it is a good sample slice of Baptist doctrine.

As Baptists we beleive that a Christian has the Holy Spirit in us, guiding ALL of us... not just a couple people.

NOw if 100 Christians are sampled... All having the Holy Spirit.
And 98 out of 100 agree, it is safe to say the 2 are wrong.

But you see it the other way.. you will claim that 98 are not being led by God... and only the 2 are. Is the Holy Spirit that weak?

IF we consistently practiced Christianity the way you see it, we would not vote on anything in church. We would allow the loudest, and most self-righteous to make all the decisions...

I don't know about your church, but in ours, we believe that all the members are led by God, and they each should have the opportunity to display this. That is why we believe that the majority of any group of Christians will make the most godly choice.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

And 98 out of 100 agree, it is safe to say the 2 are wrong.

Not necessarily, tim.

Many walk the broad road to destruction.
Few, the narrow road to life eternal.

Many will say "Lord, lord" and still hear the words, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

We must also remember all through the Scripture that the Lord used the few to defeat the many.

Majority is not always right. The Church at Corinth thought they were right and it took one man to set them straight on many things they were doing that were contrary to the commandment of the Lord.

 

[tinytim]

Not necessarily, tim.

Many walk the broad road to destruction.
Few, the narrow road to life eternal.

Many will say "Lord, lord" and still hear the words, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

I am not talking about the general population...

I am talking about born again, Christians.
They are not walking the road to destruction.

Every born again Christian is on the narrow road.

And when 98 out of 100 of those on the narrow road agree over scripture, there is a GREAT chance the 2 are wrong. IF 100% of people in your church are saved, then 100% have the Holy Spirit living in them...

Since that is so, the majority of Christians in your church or the majority of Christians on this board will be on the right side.. because the Holy Spirit will be living in them.

The only way to reject this is to say that those that disagree with you are not saved, or if they are saved, not letting the Holy Spirit guide them.

I can't believe this. That would say that most Christians out there don't follow God. The Bible doesn't say this.

I beleive that most Christians out there... especially Baptists... follow God as close as they can.

You of course can disagree, but that doesn't make you right.

I know I follow God. I know what the Bible says. I know how to properly interpret the proverbs... as do many, many brothers and sisters that all say the same thing.

The proverbs were never meant to be properly interpretted as promises.. .but Godly principles to live by. They are general truths... as opposed to specific truths.. .

As I am sure you can tell by now, the majority of Christians on this board agree with me on this. Now are you saying that we all are in the wrong?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Hath He said and shall He not do it?

When God's Word says He will do something, He will.

When God's Word says something will happen as a result of an action, it will happen.

The wills, won'ts and shalls were not put there for us to just dismiss as being only principles, tim.

You can say they are only principles, God's Word declares them to be more than that.

I am not foolish enough to dismiss clear truths and promises written in His Word as just general principles or pithy sayings.

 

[tinytim]

Show me from God's word where God says that proverbs are more than principles...

If I tell my son, "If you drive fast, you will wreck and kill yourself"
Is that a promise that will happen everytime?

NO... it is a good possiblility... did I lie? NO... it is a principle.
It is a truth.
Will it happen everytime he drives fast? no. But it could happen.

That is the same way the proverbs are. They are principles with exceptions.

 

[readmore]

Yes, to "dismiss" anything in the word of God is foolish. Do you tithe, SFIC? If not, should we accuse you of "dismissing" the "clear teachings" of the Mosaic Law?

You see, to apply proper hermeneutics is not to "dismiss" anything. You understand (rightly so) that tithing was a part of the Law, and that we are today not under the Law. And so understanding that proverbs are, in fact, proverbs is not "dismissing" anything, as you suggest.