Proverbs 31:6-7. Specific Command or general principle?

[standingfirminChrist]

Deut. 26:5 perish
BBE = wandering
CJB = nomad
CSB = wandering
ESV = wandering
GWN = wandering
JPS = wandering
LXE = abandoned
NASB = wandering
NET = wandering
NIV = wandering
NJB = wandering
NLT = wandering'
NRS = wandering
RSV = wandering
TNK = fugitive

Funny, all the modern versions people that people fight to say we should be using say nothing of perish meaning death.

Are you saying their translations are wrong?

 

[gb93433]

notice the man ready to perish in Deut. 26 did not die? Perish there does not mean die either.

Good partial observation. Did you notice how the BDB lexicon translated it? Are you better equipped than they in your understanding of Hebrew?

Your understanding makes about as much sense as a bat being both an animal and a wooden stick in every context.

Did you also notice that no transaltion in Deut 26:5 translated that word perish? So what is your point?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

[SIZE=+1]He is seen in every book of the Bible. Take a journey through the halls of the Bible and in every one of them you will see Christ. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]IN Genesis He is the Seed of the woman
IN Exodus the Lamb for sinners slain
IN Leviticus our High Priest
IN Numbers The Star of Jacob
IN Deuteronomy The Prophet like unto Moses and the Great Rock
IN Joshua the Captain of the Lord of Hosts
IN Judges the Messenger of Jehovah
IN Ruth our Kinsman Redeemer and Faithful Bridegroom
IN 1 Samuel He is seen as the Great Judge
IN 2 Samuel He is the Princely King
IN 1 Kings as David's choice
IN 2 Kings as the Holiest of all
IN 1 Chronicles as the King by birth
IN 2 Chronicles as King by judgement
IN Ezra He is seen as Lord of Heaven and Earth
IN Nehemiah as the Builder
IN Esther our Mordecai
IN Job our Daysman and our Risen Returning Redeemer
IN Psalms the Son of God and the Good Shepherd
IN Proverbs our Wisdom
IN Ecclesiastes as the One Above the Sun
IN Song of Solomon the Great Church Lover, the One Altogether
Lovely and the Chiefest among Ten Thousand
IN Isaiah He is the Suffering and Glorified Servant
IN Jeremiah the Lord Our Righteousness
IN Lamentations the Man of Sorrows
IN Ezekiel the Glorious God
IN Daniel the Smithing Stone and the Messiah
IN Hosea He is the Risen Son of God
IN Joel the Out Pourer of the Spirit
IN Amos the Eternal Christ
IN Obadiah the Forgiving Christ
IN Jonah the Risen Prophet
IN Micah the Bethlehemite
IN Nahum He is the Bringer of Good Tidings
IN Habakkuk the Lord in His Holy Temple
IN Zephaniah the Merciful Christ
IN Haggai the Desire of All Nations
IN Zechariah the Branch
IN Malachi the Son of Righteousness with Healing in His Wings

http://incolor.inebraska.com/stuart/every.htm
[/SIZE]

 

[gb93433]

Deut. 26:5 perish
BBE = wandering
CJB = nomad
CSB = wandering
ESV = wandering
GWN = wandering
JPS = wandering
LXE = abandoned
NASB = wandering
NET = wandering
NIV = wandering
NJB = wandering
NLT = wandering'
NRS = wandering
RSV = wandering
TNK = fugitive

Funny, all the modern versions people that people fight to say we should be using say nothing of perish meaning death.

Are you saying their translations are wrong?

Where did I ever state that the word in Deut 26:5 should be translated perish?

 

[gb93433]

[SIZE=+1]He is seen in every book of the Bible. Take a journey through the halls of the Bible and in every one of them you will see Christ. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]IN Genesis He is the Seed of the woman
IN Exodus the Lamb for sinners slain
IN Leviticus our High Priest
IN Numbers The Star of Jacob
IN Deuteronomy The Prophet like unto Moses and the Great Rock
IN Joshua the Captain of the Lord of Hosts
IN Judges the Messenger of Jehovah
IN Ruth our Kinsman Redeemer and Faithful Bridegroom
IN 1 Samuel He is seen as the Great Judge
IN 2 Samuel He is the Princely King
IN 1 Kings as David's choice
IN 2 Kings as the Holiest of all
IN 1 Chronicles as the King by birth
IN 2 Chronicles as King by judgement
IN Ezra He is seen as Lord of Heaven and Earth
IN Nehemiah as the Builder
IN Esther our Mordecai
IN Job our Daysman and our Risen Returning Redeemer
IN Psalms the Son of God and the Good Shepherd
IN Proverbs our Wisdom
IN Ecclesiastes as the One Above the Sun
IN Song of Solomon the Great Church Lover, the One Altogether
Lovely and the Chiefest among Ten Thousand
IN Isaiah He is the Suffering and Glorified Servant
IN Jeremiah the Lord Our Righteousness
IN Lamentations the Man of Sorrows
IN Ezekiel the Glorious God
IN Daniel the Smithing Stone and the Messiah
IN Hosea He is the Risen Son of God
IN Joel the Out Pourer of the Spirit
IN Amos the Eternal Christ
IN Obadiah the Forgiving Christ
IN Jonah the Risen Prophet
IN Micah the Bethlehemite
IN Nahum He is the Bringer of Good Tidings
IN Habakkuk the Lord in His Holy Temple
IN Zephaniah the Merciful Christ
IN Haggai the Desire of All Nations
IN Zechariah the Branch
IN Malachi the Son of Righteousness with Healing in His Wings

http://incolor.inebraska.com/stuart/every.htm
[/SIZE]

Too much Darbyism and allegory as McIntosh did for me.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Good partial observation. Did you notice how the BDB lexicon translated it? Are you better equipped than they in your understandfing of Hebrew?

Your understanding makes about as much sense as a bat being both an animal and a wooden stick in every context.

Did you also notice that no transaltion in Deut 26:5 translated that word perish? So what is your point?

As I said, the man in Deut 26 was ready to perish. If perish meant die, why travel mile and miles to set up a legacy instead of dying like he was supposedly ready to do?

No, the truth is, he was a nomad, a wanderer who abandoned his homeland. He was not ready to die or he would have died.

 

[gb93433]

notice the man ready to perish in Deut. 26 did not die? Perish there does not mean die either.

Did you get past the first verse and notice if any other verses showed others who died?

 

[gb93433]

As I said, the man in Deut 26 was ready to perish. If perish meant die, why travel mile and miles to set up a legacy instead of dying like he was supposedly ready to do?

No, the truth is, he was a nomad, a wanderer who abandoned his homeland. He was not ready to die or he would have died.

Again I ask "Where did I ever state that the word in Deut 26:5 should be translated perish?"

 

[Linda64]

What is Darbyism? Is that a new doctrine?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The scriptures which Christ referred to is the OT. The OT dies refer to him especially in Isaiah. I see not one shred of evidence found of Christ in Proverbs. If so then can you steer me to one verse in Proverbs that testifies of Christ.

Perhaps you could try opening your eyes when reading the Proverbs. Here is just one passage that testifies of Christ in Proverbs 8:

14 “Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine.
15 “By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice.
16 “By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly.
17 “I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Give strong drink to him that is ready to perish.

What child of God is ready to perish? Our faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross assures us that we will never perish.

So giving strong drink to the child of God is not commanded in that verse.

To the unsaved? What drink is stronger than the water of Life that comes from Christ alone?

Give the dying unsaved Christ and you have fulfilled the command in Proverbs 31.

*edited to add:

Alcohol bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.
The water of life takes the sting of death from a person.

Which is more powerful?

Wine and strong drink are a picture of Christ??

Surely SFIC - you have taken this a step too far.

I am as opposed to alcohol as you are, but this is a little over the top. Someone talked about the meaning earlier - alcohol is a drug, as Paul points out to Timothy, and like every other drug is to be used medicinally only. I can't even see why there is a controversy over this passage.

 

[Linda64]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus was speaking of the O.T Scriptures...the very Scriptures He said would "testify of Him" (John 5:39).

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Wine and strong drink are a picture of Christ??

Surely SFIC - you have taken this a step too far.

I am as opposed to alcohol as you are, but this is a little over the top. Someone talked about the meaning earlier - alcohol is a drug, as Paul points out to Timothy, and like every other drug is to be used medicinally only. I can't even see why there is a controversy over this passage.

Roger,

Reread my post. You did not even understand what I said. Christ is the strongest drink man could give man. I am stating that we should be giving man the living water (Christ) and not alcohol. Surely you do not disagree with that?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Give strong drink to him that is ready to perish. Proverbs 31:

What child of God is ready to perish? Our faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross assures us that we will never perish.

So giving strong drink to the child of God is not commanded in that verse.

To the unsaved? What drink is stronger than the water of Life that comes from Christ alone?

Give the dying unsaved Christ and you have fulfilled the command in Proverbs 31.

*edited to add:

Alcohol bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.
The water of life takes the sting of death from a person.

Which is more powerful?

There is what I said. I never said Christ was an alcoholic drink. I pointed out the fact that He is better than a strong drink.

To give one who is lost alcohol (that is what many are advocating) is doing nothing for that person's eternal state after death except to help him down the road to hell.

But to give them Jesus Christ...whom they truly are thirsting after, is the ultimate strong drink. That water of life that takes away the sting of death.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Roger,

Reread my post. You did not even understand what I said. Christ is the strongest drink man could give man. I am stating that we should be giving man the living water (Christ) and not alcohol. Surely you do not disagree with that?

I am sorry Ron, but this is surely a stretch to try and replace the strong drink here with Christ. It just doesn't make any sense to use Christ in the context of this verse in particular. Of course Christ is seen in the OT, but that doesn't mean that He is found in every single verse or every single word. This verse is not telling us to give the water of life to them who are perishing spiritually. It is telling us to use alcohol like we would use any drug today, to alleviate suffering for the sick.

We can leave the topic of recreational drug use for another discussion. I oppose all recreational drug use, but I do take medicine and if I had lived before medicines as we know them were available I would have taken alcohol for a medicinal purpose. I would take alcohol today if I were in a situation where other drugs/medicines were not available.

Of course I agree with your quote above, but that has nothing to do with this passage.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Proverbs 31:6-7 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

This morning, I had to go to the doctors because of shortness of breath and wheezing in my lungs. I learned that I am in the early stages of COPD.

For many, COPD may as well be a death warrant. They carry it to their graves. So, according to the interpretation of many in this thread, because my body is dying, I would be justified in going out and buying a bottle of Jack Daniels or Jim Beam or some other strong drink to drink and just give up because I am going to die.

To the world, I am poor, living on disability... as is my wife as well. I reckon according to the interpretation of those on the BB, we would be justified in drinking alcoholic wines to the point that we forget our poverty.

Sure, push the alcohol on people instead of showing Christ. No thank you. What in the world is a bottle of bourbon whiskey or a bottle of grape wine going to do for a person?

At the last... bite like a serpent and sting like an adder. Again, no thank you.

Y'all can push the bottle, I will preach the truth of who is truly strong drink for not just those who are dying, but those who are lost as well... Christ Jesus.

oh, btw it is not just me, but every person in the world who is dying every day. Every breath we take brings us that much closer to the grave. So, according to the interpretation of many on the BB, we all should be drinking alcohol and forgetting our misery.

Again I repeat... No thank you.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Proverbs 31:6-7 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

This morning, I had to go to the doctors because of shortness of breath and wheezing in my lungs. I learned that I am in the early stages of COPD.

For many, COPD may as well be a death warrant. They carry it to their graves. So, according to the interpretation of many, because my body is dying, I would be justified in going out and buying a bottle of Jack Daniels or Jim Beam or some other strong drink to drink and just give up because I am going to die.

To the world, I am poor, living on disability... as is my wife as well. I reckon according to the interpretation of others, we would be justified in drinking alcoholic wines to the point that we forget our poverty.

Sure, push the alcohol on people instead of showing Christ. No thank you. What in the world is a bottle of bourbon whiskey or a bottle of grape wine going to do for a person?

At the last... bite like a serpent and sting like an adder. Again, no thank you.

Y'all can push the bottle, I will preach the truth of who is truly strong drink for not just those who are dying, but those who are lost as well... Christ Jesus.

I am sorry to hear of your illness. Will you be taking any medication for it?

I am offended by your charge that I am "pushing the bottle." In your heart you know that is not what I am doing here. You know that I am not suggesting that you go out bottle of Jack Daniels. There is no need to make this kind of over reactionary statement when you disagree.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I am sorry to hear of your illness. Will you be taking any medication for it?

I am offended by your charge that I am "pushing the bottle." In your heart you know that is not what I am saying.

The meds prescribed were way too expensive for our income. Advair 250/50 alone was over 60 dollars. Then the Singulair was way over what we have as well.

I was able to get a cough medicine... non-alcoholic... for 14 dollars (this we could afford on our own; which we felt was highway robbery.

They are trying to kill off us older folks by raising meds costs too high for those on disability.

BTW, I am on Medicaid, Medicare, and AARP. None of these companies would pay any part of the medicine cost.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Proverbs 31:6-7 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Brother Roger,

I know you don't drink, and I do not think you would purposely say to go out and buy Jack Daniels.

But in a round about way that is what you are sanctioning. When you say that the Scripture allows strong drink for one who is dying, you are saying 'alcohol will help you, the Bible say it will.'

So in a way you are indeed sanctioning it.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The meds prescribed were way too expensive for our income. Advair 250/50 alone was over 60 dollars. Then the Singulair was way over what we have as well.

I was able to get a cough medicine... non-alcoholic... for 14 dollars (this we could afford on our own; which we felt was highway robbery.

They are trying to kill off us older folks by raising meds costs too high for those on disability.

BTW, I am on Medicaid, Medicare, and AARP. None of these companies would pay any part of the medicine cost.

I don't know much about your illness, but be assured I will be praying for you.

However, would you take the meds if you could afford them? What makes alcohol differ from any other drug?

I have always taken the concept that the Bible is clear and precise, we don't need to go digging and scrapping for answers. This passage in clear in that we should treat the ill and dying with medication. At Solomon's time alcohol was that medicine.