proverbsb 31 and the use of intoxicating beverages

You must be talking about LifeWay.
I prefer the Bible and my own understanding to some of the things that have raised my eyebrows in that material.

Now, as to why God would say to give the man wine to forget his poverty, the answer is found in Psalm 104:14,15...

He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate---bringing forth food from the earth; wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart.

God does not say to make the poor man drunk to the point of debauchery, just give him a little shot to cheer him up.

MR

 

and what about I Timothy 5:23

 

Not to hijack this thread (into a tithe/don't tithe debate) , but what about Deut 14:26?

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

For three years, if the Israelites redeemed their tithe (tithe was food(!)), they could spend the money on whatever their soul lusted after, including wine and strong drink...

 

I gave up on the quarterly because when the commentary is suggesting that the writer of a verse is being sarcastic...imo that could just about put any verse of the bible in doubt, if you use that logic.

 

It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted. Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. (Proverbs 31:4-7 ESV)

As I read this passage, I really don't see it pushing for no alcohol under any circumstances. I see it as calling for leaders to not be under the influence of wine so that they don't end up doing something stupid. It doesn't seem to be condemning the use of alcohol in all circumstances though.

Also, if it's condemning the use of alcohol, how is it any different to sit down after some stressful thing and have a few cups of coffee or smoke a cigarette or eat some donuts?

 

Forget the intoxicating beverages, coffee, cigarettes, Crispy Cremes, etc!

I am totally addicted to Washington cherries, especially the Ranier variety, and the season is fast approaching!

I'm going to seek help (well, maybe after this year's season).

Oh ya, then comes the chantrelle mushroom season.

Woe is me!

HankD

 

But irony is a recognized literary device even in Scripture. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water ...

 

Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Notice the contrast between the two verses. Verse six is known as a "comparative negative," a literary device. In a negative way it compares the sad situation and the consequent destruction that follows those that do drink. On the other hand it is not for kings to drink. In application, all believers are kings and priests before God.
DHK

 

All believers are part of a priesthood (I Peter 2:9), but where do you get that all believers are kings?

 

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

Hey, if the guy is down in the dumps, give him a little wine to cheer him up.

You don't have to get drunk for wine to have a positive effect.

Though for pain, I would think it would help. (to get drunk, that is).

I believe that wine is one of the good gifts that God gives to us.

 

If you read Amos 4:4, Amos is proclaiming a bit of irony.

 

Revelation 1:6-- and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Are we the kingdom, or are we King(s)?

 

basileus bas-il-yooce'
probably from 939 (through the notion of a
foundation of power); a sovereign (abstractly,
relatively, or figuratively):--king.

Basileus--king (textus receptus)
Basileian--Kingdom (critical text)

The above is the difference in the two translations. There are basically only two bibles: those translated from the Received Text, and those translated from the Critical Text. I agree with the former of which the KJV correctly translates basileus as "king."
DHK

 

Revelation 1:6 (KJV) and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father-- to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 

Which KJV do you have brother?

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (KJV)

 

How does this square with repeated condemnations of drunkeness? </font>[/QUOTE]HI Jim. Perhaps a different take on the above verses where I don’t see drunkenness to be in the equation. Leaving drunkenness and the drunkard out here, as some have noted, is then seen as advice for one doing for another.

I doesn’t hurt to give the dieing 100 proof or better “rock gut” if it is available, without a mixture, even if they become addicted.

For one with a heavy heart, which would to me depict a short depression perhaps brought on by sorrow (poverty of spirit), can be controlled by substances that lift the spirit for a while. The wine portions, and timing are to be different than for pain killing liquor. A glass of wine does wonders for those that know that drinking (liquor, beer or wine) is not a sin. His Word never implies this, and in fact expects we humans will do it, if that is our desire. Jesus Christ availed himself of wine, as did all the Apostles from Andrew to Paul, as did I am sure, all the kingdom people of God, and Christians. We are not John the Baptist, and we are not Samson.

The Bible verifies this fact. So many churches have made them a sin of their own, that God did not intend, so to those that believe it is a sin do not drink, but sit in judgment of those that know it is not a sin. It is beyond me how any student of the Bible can walk away from it believing moderational drinking of wine at meal time, celebration’s, or remembrance, is a sin or to be avoided at all costs. There are few that study, or know how to study His Word, but most people in churches only know what is put in front of them. You've talked to them before. Get them out of the Sunday quarterly (that skirts certain issues), and they do not comprehend His Word.

Being drunk once or twice in ones life does not a drunkard make. The drunkard is like the sluggard, liar, adulterer, etc. These people continue throughout their chosen life and do not come to repentance that is found in Christ Jesus. Should we get drunk on one or two occasions, it shows we are human, but we sinners that are saved, and do not, and cannot become as the sluggard, liar, adulterer already had this sin forgiven. Is it possible for a Christian to have an illicit affair? Every one is susceptible to this, and every other sin in the book. Most are able to avoid such actions, but the saved person’s sin that they do (which we sin in some form as we live), has already been taken care. We are to praise and thank Him daily for making us righteous in Him; not constantly praying to please forgive us of our sins. He did that for us, and I believe He really took all my sins away, past – present – future. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

I can't find where Revelation is written to the Christian. It is for His nation Israel, as is Peter, James and Jude.Christian faith, ituttut

 

Ituttut,

Really?

Revelation is written to the churches, at least in my Bible!

Rev. 1:4 John, to the seven churches in the province of Asia.

What does your Bible say?

Hyper-dispensationalism is going to get you. You better knock it off!

Jude 1 - Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ. Sounds like Christians to me!

James 1:1 - James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations. Sounds like Jewish Christians to me! Messianic Jews! The same kind of Jewish Christians that the disciples became, and the same ones who founded the church at Pentecost!

And the same goes for Peter.

Really ituttut, you need to get a grip on reality. The followers of Christ in the NT, whether Jews or Gentiles, are the church, the elect of God.