PSA

[easternstar]

Their understanding of the sacraments, the incorporation of mysticism, their rituals (a blend of Judiasm and Roman paganism), veneration of icons, a mystical Eucharist, their ecclesiology, their priesthood (blend of Judaism and paganism), penance, deification....to name a few.

I wouldn't agree that those show pagan influence. Those things you mentioned, the EOC holds different ideas of them, compared and contrasted with the RCC, which I do believe has pagan influences.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The two long articles I posted offer ample evidence and proof to refute the claim that the ECF believed PSA. Reading your own Western johnny-come-lately heinous meanings back into the ECF writings and twisting them to suit your purpose is dishonest. But, hey, strain away at it until you pop something loose or burst a blood vessel; it still won't change the fact that the ECF did not hold to PSA.

You didn't quote them; you linked them and I don't read links unless I can escape from their cookies. One was a critique of the book Pierced for our Trangressions, in which the author of the critique failed to reference the definition of Penal Substitution given by the authors whom he was critiquing. Here, for about the hundreth time is the definition they used, and which I have used in all the myriad discussions on this board. "The doctrine of Penal Substitution states that God gave Himself in the Person of His Son to suffer instead of us the death, punishment and curse due to fallen humanity."
We have seen this sort of stuff with wearying regularity on this board. People make up their own definitions and their own theories just so that they can prove them wrong.

The quotations I have previously given show amply that the ECFs believed in PSA, but in fact that doesn't really matter. What matters is if a doctrine can be found in the Bible and PSA is found throughout.

The subject of "Orthodox" Christianity seems to be coming up a lot just recently, which is a little odd in a Baptist discussion forum.
My experience of that particular form of Christendom took place in 2012 when Mrs Marprelate and I visited St. Petersburg to see our daughter who was studying there briefly. It was the 200th anniversary of Napoleon's invasion of Russia, and there were big celebrations. We attended an excellent performance of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, complete with cannons. But afterwards, an "icon" that apparently had not been seen for fifty years was brought out of the cathedral and the people were encouraged to come up and kiss it. Long queues formed and thousands of people waited for an hour or more to come and worship this thing made of paint and parchment. That seems to me to be almost the definition of idolatry.

 

[JonC]

I wouldn't agree that those show pagan influence. Those things you mentioned, the EOC holds different ideas of them, compared and contrasted with the RCC, which I do believe has pagan influences.

Those are pagan influences, but they hold some different ideas of them. I heard one priest explain that they "purified" the paganism.

I appreciated the EOC mode of worship until I realized it was modeled after the mystery cults (it was how the mystery cults worshipped).

I am not saying it makes them less Christian. But they carried into their faith a lot of paganism. Essentially it was a blend of Christinity and paganism (just like the RCC) as Christianity became a compelled faith.

We saw the same in Ireland, and here in the US. When Christianity becomes the official religion it ends up an amalgamation of Christianity and the original faiths.

 

[Salty]

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