Puppets

"what's the problem with using puppets to teach small children about gospel"

A quote from Ulsterman that started this thread. What does this quote say. "Teach young children". It says to me that he is talking about teaching young children. He did not say anything in this paragraph about worship. What I am getting at, is, that my understanding is that the situation is a class room for the "young children" to learn about Jesus and Father God and how they are to learn how to live according to Christian teachings.

I am through with this because some of us can accept change at all pertaining to winning lost souls to Christ.

 

I don't think there is any reason to change God's plan for winning lost souls to Christ. It was perfect from the start. Any changes are the "wisdom of man and the world" and not the wisdom of God.

peace to youraying:

 

I think children are learning alot of things in our churches that are dishonoring to God. But that is another thread.

peace to youraying:

 

As I was reading through the thread, this caught my eye. Am wondering if there is any evidence that Paul made any specific effort to win the children?

 

Many believe that Paul won Timothy to Christ on his first missionary journey (Acts 14:6-7), and it is evident to me that Timothy was saved as a child (2 Tim. 3:15). However, all of that is moot because of Christ's teaching: "And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them" (Mark 10:13-17).

If Jesus loves children and blessed them, so will I. And puppets are a wonderful way to do so. I wrote a Christmas puppet play in Japanese some years ago entitled "Grandpa Truth," which gives the Gospel very clearly. I translated it into English last year for the BB. If anyone wants it in MS Word format, PM me and I would be happy to send it to you.

 

When I with the Evangelical Free Church I taught Sunday School for 8-12 year olds . I had freedom to teach from the Bible alone . The children were excited about the content . I did not use any gizmos or gadgets . But the following year I was told to use gizmos and gadgets ( literally ) . I refused . The literature was suspect as well . In the story of Noah the authors made it an ecological theme . Other teachers told me they felt uncomfortable about the pronounced drift . But the trouble was that they did not take it up directly with the Sunday School Department Head . They remained . I left that church because of that . Nothing personal -- it was theological . Many ask at what point did a particular church go liberal . It's usually a gradual process -- but check out the Sunday School .

 

Stick to your guns, Rippon. Never use those gadgets--chalk boards, copy machines, printing presses, microphones. God can't use any gadgets like that.:thumbs:

When I use a puppet, the voice is mine, the teaching is mine, the actions are mine--just think of it like a fancy microphone! :smilewinkgrin:

 

Lemme see, lemme see, Heb. 12:28. Ah, here it is. "Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear." Nope, don't see any prohibitions in there.

You know, I really don't remember you ever coming over to Japan and watching me use puppets. So how would you know with what attitude I use puppets?

Or maybe it is the puppet I use. Is it that God didn't create the skunk so maybe I shouldn't use one? Oh, I have it. God used a donkey. So will I be all right if I get a donkey puppet? Or maybe I should get a rock puppet since Jesus said that even the rocks could cry out and praise God.

I'm being facetious here, but seriously, if God used a donkey to speak to a prophet, what makes it irreverent to use a skunk to speak to children? Do you actually think I make fun of God, or treat the Bible lightly or something like that? What would be irreverent to you?

 

Read the account of Nadab and Abihu. God had never told them not to offer strange fire either. He did say however, I will be sanctified! Some things we must just know are right and appropriate because our God is holy and must be worshipped with reverence and awe! We need to think, read the word and figure out what worship with reverence and awe consists of! Must we wait for judgment to know what God desires from HIs people? He has made it known in His word in a million different ways. Trust me, its not puppets!

 

Ah - but Nadab and Abihu did have a strict list of what to do. Just read Leviticus! God layed out strict rules and regulations for sacrifice and worship in the tabernacle. The "strange fire" could have been a couple of things. The two most likely explanations is that they used coal from a source other than the burnt offering altar (cf. Lev 16.12). Or an unauthorized person was involved in the offering (Num. 16.40). Or they used the wrong kind of incense (Ex. 30.9). Another possibility is that they did it at the wrong time (cf Lev 16.2). There were a lot of specific regulations for tabernacle/temple worship. And there were direct commands to not veer from the specifics that God laid out.

Move ahead a few thousand years to God's establishment of the church where temple worship is not required (and in fact cannot be done today because there is no temple). There are no levitical-type prescriptions on worship. Hence, there is no "puppets-are-bad" rules and no "worship only using these prescribed set of actions and methods."

 

I can see how you would look at it that way, Brother John. But to me this Scripture, coupled with the New Testament practice of the apostles, raises the question of why did they not interpret this teaching as an injunction to engage in concerted action toward converting the youth as we do today?

 

Maybe we should just all revert to litergical services. Or maybe we can just sing 7-11 songs and wave our hands and leave it at that.

 

Could have been a lot of things, but wasnt! Bottom line is that God took their life for something He had not forbidden, expecting them to know what He expected. Just as we should know!!

 

I don't see anything here changing the plan of salvation.

I see changes of methodology.

Example: Except for the "new coke" debacle in the 1980's, "coke" hasn't changed in decades. But just a few of the slogans....

"The pause that refreshes"
"Things go better with Coke"
"Coke is it!"
"Coke adds life"
"Have a coke and a smile"
"I'd like to teach the world to sing..."
"It's the real thing"
"Always Coca-cola"

the product was the same. The slogan adapted to reach a new generation.

What's so unbiblical about changing the slogan if you're not messing with the product?

 

Because I Cor. 1:21 gives us God's plan for salvation. The method(ology) (preaching/proclaiming the gospel) and the message (Christ and Him crucified). Hebrews 12:28 gives us the instructions to worship God with reverence and awe.

If you use puppets to proclaim the gospel, even if the message is sound, the delivery violates Hebrews 12:28 because there is a lack of reverence and awe. Puppets are irreverent by design.

peace to youraying:

 

Or maybe we should study scripture and find out exactly how God has instructed us to worship Him.

peace to youraying:

 

Sorry to be just butting in here, but canadyjd, can you please explain HOW to worship with "reverence and awe"? What exactly does that mean? (keep in mind that I want God's definition) The fact of the matter is, puppets are for children, at least in most cases. I know many a child, my children included, who relate to the puppet shows, it helps them to understand, which in turn aids in their worship of God with "reverence and awe". BTW, not all puppets are irreverent by design. Why would you even claim such a thing?

 

You are joking, right? You can't actually be comparing the strange fire of Nadab and Abihu with using puppets in Sunday School, can you? I really don't know you, but I would think you would have more discernment than that!!

(1) The story is OT. We are talking about the NT church. We don't make offerings of animals and fire like they did.
(2) They were making an offering. Using puppets to teach children is not making an offering.
(3) They were making an offering specifically prohibited by God. God has not prohibited puppets.

Is this your method of Bible interpretation? "We just know it!" Sorry, I believe in actually studying. And no, I don't trust you. You are not showing much knowledge of Biblical interepretation at all yet. You haven't given any concrete Biblical reasons why puppets should be prohibited in SS, just generalizations. Tell me why using puppets is wrong, and give specific reasons and Scripture, not just "Oh, it is not reverent." That is nothing more than your opinion.

You seem to be making the same mistake a previous poster did. Do you believe we worship only on Sunday? The Bible never ever calls the meetings of a local church a "worship service." I believe we are to worship God all day every day, and I believe the Bible doesn't teach that worship is some kind of holy attitude on Sunday that doesn't affect your daily life. Look up the meanings of the two Greek words used for worship in the NT, and maybe you'll understand.

 

Your idea that "puppets are irreverent by design, and thus are prohibited" is still only an idea. Tell us how this is true, or you are irrelevant.

You point out how we are to approach God with reverence and awe. These are attitudes. Tell me specifically how when I use puppets I have no reverence for God or awe of Him. Tell me specifically how the kids learn not to be reverent towards God through my puppets.

The truth is, one use of my skunk puppet is specifically to teach kids how to act in church--reverently!! I have the puppet say something inappropriate and then I rebuke him. This has helped in particular little S., who once even called God a derrogatory name in SS. I am dealing with a culture that knows nothing about God, and you want me to abandon a useful tool because you think it is "irreverent by design?" Pshaw! :tongue3: