Purgatory is mentioned in the New Testament!

[Edin Michael]

In Luke 12:43-48 we find Jesus speaking about a returning master and four different types of slaves. The return of the master (Jesus) points towards the impending judgement that awaits each one of us where we find out whether we will enter into the kingdom of God (master’s household) or not. So, what happens when the master returns? If the master finds his slave at work (being faithful and obedient), he will be put in charge of the master’s possessions (enters the household of God, heaven). If the same slave is found to “to beat the other slaves, men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk”, he will be cut into pieces (a permanent state) and put with the unfaithful. I.e. he will be cast out of God’s kingdom “into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mat 25:30), hell.

If there was only heaven and hell, Jesus would have stopped here. But we find him going on to talk about two more types of slaves. The third kind of slave “knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted”. As for the fourth slave, he “did not know and did what deserved a beating”. It should be noted that both the third and the fourth did not abuse others (beat other slaves) or abuse himself (get drunk) like the second one but where just not ready for the master’s return. Both of them receive a severe and a light beating correspondingly, a temporary punishment, but in the end, they are not cast out of the master’s household.

Is not Jesus talking about a temporary state of punishment - Purgatory?

 

[Adonia]

So is the 'Our Father" prayer, but many of our Baptist friends reject it as it is actually written as well. They have their own interpretation of the scriptures don't you know!

 

[Rob_BW]

Now show us the part where the family of the third and fourth slaves should pray to the first slave and the mother of the master so as to shorten the suffering of the third and fourth slaves.

 

[Edin Michael]

Now show us the part where the family of the third and fourth slaves should pray to the first slave and the mother of the master so as to shorten the suffering of the third and fourth slaves.

I am not talking about "Praying for the Dead" but rather only about the teachings of Christ himself that shows that there is something more than heaven and hell - Purgatory.
As for praying for the souls of the departed, the Bible is very clear that one's prayer can help in the forgiveness of sins of another. Job offers burnt offerings so that the sins that his sons may have committed would be forgiven (Job 1:4-5). James encourages to call elders and have them pray over the sick and he goes on to say that, their (elders) prayer of faith will lead to forgiveness of sins (James 5:13-15).

 

[Edin Michael]

So is the 'Our Father" prayer, but many of our Baptist friends reject it as it is actually written as well. They have their own interpretation of the scriptures don't you know!

I know. I am just trying to find out what the interpretation in for Baptists.

 

[Oseas3]

If there was only heaven and hell, Jesus would have stopped here. But we find him going on to talk about two more types of slaves. The third kind of slave “knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted”. As for the fourth slave, he “did not know and did what deserved a beating”. It should be noted that both the third and the fourth did not abuse others (beat other slaves) or abuse himself (get drunk) like the second one but where just not ready for the master’s return. Both of them receive a severe and a light beating correspondingly, a temporary punishment, but in the end, they are not cast out of the master’s household.
Is not Jesus talking about a temporary state of punishment - Purgatory?

No, JESUS is not talking what you are talking He was talking, its FAKE. You have not the mind of Christ, neither is linked with Christ, by the way, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. Only and only who was born again, was born from the Spirit of God, has the mind of Christ , and understand and interpret correctly His words.

Your disguised spirit, spirit of darkeness, tries to interpret the words of my LORD, such as the Devil in the temptation. What you are doing is the same Satan did with JESUS in the temptation: Matt.4:v.6 - And Satan said unto JESUS, speaking of the Scriptures : "6 Satan said unto JESUS: "If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. - Psalms 91:v.11-12

You are a STUMBLING BLOCK.

 

[Revmitchell]

In Luke 12:43-48 we find Jesus speaking about a returning master and four different types of slaves. The return of the master (Jesus) points towards the impending judgement that awaits each one of us where we find out whether we will enter into the kingdom of God (master’s household) or not. So, what happens when the master returns? If the master finds his slave at work (being faithful and obedient), he will be put in charge of the master’s possessions (enters the household of God, heaven). If the same slave is found to “to beat the other slaves, men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk”, he will be cut into pieces (a permanent state) and put with the unfaithful. I.e. he will be cast out of God’s kingdom “into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mat 25:30), hell.

If there was only heaven and hell, Jesus would have stopped here. But we find him going on to talk about two more types of slaves. The third kind of slave “knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted”. As for the fourth slave, he “did not know and did what deserved a beating”. It should be noted that both the third and the fourth did not abuse others (beat other slaves) or abuse himself (get drunk) like the second one but where just not ready for the master’s return. Both of them receive a severe and a light beating correspondingly, a temporary punishment, but in the end, they are not cast out of the master’s household.

Is not Jesus talking about a temporary state of punishment - Purgatory?

I do not agree with you but want to add that the over zealous and over the top response from post # 6 is out of place.

 

[Rob_BW]

I am not talking about "Praying for the Dead" but rather only about the teachings of Christ himself that shows that there is something more than heaven and hell - Purgatory.
As for praying for the souls of the departed, the Bible is very clear that one's prayer can help in the forgiveness of sins of another. Job offers burnt offerings so that the sins that his sons may have committed would be forgiven (Job 1:4-5). James encourages to call elders and have them pray over the sick and he goes on to say that, their (elders) prayer of faith will lead to forgiveness of sins (James 5:13-15).

All examples of praying for the living.

Forgive me if I'm taking your thread off course, but I see a link between "is their a purgatory" and "what can we do for people in purgatory."

 

[Oseas3]

So is the 'Our Father" prayer, but many of our Baptist friends reject it as it is actually written as well. They have their own interpretation of the scriptures don't you know!

That is not the case. The question is that the true Christians, or true believers, they know that the demons also believe that there is one God, so when the demons try to speak of Scriptures, like Satan in the temptation, they are identified by those which have the Spirit of God.

By the way, the order of my LORD is to gather the tares sowed by the Devil, in fact Satan infested the Earth of tares, and apostasies, and idolatries, and sorceries, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all kind of liars, and now, even now, they, THE TARES, will be separated from the wheat, they shall have their part in the lake which burns with FIRE and brimstone: which is the second death.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained FIRE and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. - the Spirit of God is a devouring / consuming FIRE. Even thus shall it be IN THIS DAY - the Lord's Day - for the Son of man will be revealed.

 

[Oseas3]

To the true Christians or true believers

Greetings

1 Thessalonians 1:v.3-12

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him - Revelation 5:v.10) and LORD of lords

 

[Yeshua1]

In Luke 12:43-48 we find Jesus speaking about a returning master and four different types of slaves. The return of the master (Jesus) points towards the impending judgement that awaits each one of us where we find out whether we will enter into the kingdom of God (master’s household) or not. So, what happens when the master returns? If the master finds his slave at work (being faithful and obedient), he will be put in charge of the master’s possessions (enters the household of God, heaven). If the same slave is found to “to beat the other slaves, men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk”, he will be cut into pieces (a permanent state) and put with the unfaithful. I.e. he will be cast out of God’s kingdom “into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mat 25:30), hell.

If there was only heaven and hell, Jesus would have stopped here. But we find him going on to talk about two more types of slaves. The third kind of slave “knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted”. As for the fourth slave, he “did not know and did what deserved a beating”. It should be noted that both the third and the fourth did not abuse others (beat other slaves) or abuse himself (get drunk) like the second one but where just not ready for the master’s return. Both of them receive a severe and a light beating correspondingly, a temporary punishment, but in the end, they are not cast out of the master’s household.

Is not Jesus talking about a temporary state of punishment - Purgatory?

No, for there is only heaven and the Lake of Fire, what we call Hell!

 

[Yeshua1]

So is the 'Our Father" prayer, but many of our Baptist friends reject it as it is actually written as well. They have their own interpretation of the scriptures don't you know!

we base our theology upon ONLY the inspired 66 books of the canon!

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not talking about "Praying for the Dead" but rather only about the teachings of Christ himself that shows that there is something more than heaven and hell - Purgatory.
As for praying for the souls of the departed, the Bible is very clear that one's prayer can help in the forgiveness of sins of another. Job offers burnt offerings so that the sins that his sons may have committed would be forgiven (Job 1:4-5). James encourages to call elders and have them pray over the sick and he goes on to say that, their (elders) prayer of faith will lead to forgiveness of sins (James 5:13-15).

Jesus claimed that salvation was accomplished and finished by Himself on that cross, yes or no?

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not talking about "Praying for the Dead" but rather only about the teachings of Christ himself that shows that there is something more than heaven and hell - Purgatory.
As for praying for the souls of the departed, the Bible is very clear that one's prayer can help in the forgiveness of sins of another. Job offers burnt offerings so that the sins that his sons may have committed would be forgiven (Job 1:4-5). James encourages to call elders and have them pray over the sick and he goes on to say that, their (elders) prayer of faith will lead to forgiveness of sins (James 5:13-15).

If Jesus paid in full and atoned for all of our sins, why would we need to suffer anymore to get "purged" from them?

 

[atpollard]

Is not Jesus talking about a temporary state of punishment - Purgatory?

I think Jesus is speaking in multiple ways of a binary state ...

[Luke 12:41-48 NASB] 41 Peter said, "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone [else] as well?" 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, [both] men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect [him] and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know [it,] and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

• faithful or unfaithful
• found ready or not found ready
• care for others or abuse others
• rewarded or cut to pieces
• few punishments or many punishments

Jesus himself seems to clarify the point He was making in the end of verse 48 ... "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." ... which suggests that this is about faithfulness in life rather than eternal destiny. The parables on Heaven and Hell tend to be clearly about judgement and sorting and destinations. This is about none of those.

I think the "money verse" is ... "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves." Here we have a heart that is not true, not Christlike ... a clear Tare among the wheat or a Goat among the sheep waiting to do evil (the true desire of his heart). Such a "Christian" would be unfaithful and abuse others and will not be found ready, so that "Christian" will receive many punishments and be cut to pieces and be thrown among those that are honest in their unbelief, rather than deceptive in a false belief.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think Jesus is speaking in multiple ways of a binary state ...

[Luke 12:41-48 NASB] 41 Peter said, "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone [else] as well?" 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, [both] men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect [him] and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know [it,] and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

• faithful or unfaithful
• found ready or not found ready
• care for others or abuse others
• rewarded or cut to pieces
• few punishments or many punishments

Jesus himself seems to clarify the point He was making in the end of verse 48 ... "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." ... which suggests that this is about faithfulness in life rather than eternal destiny. The parables on Heaven and Hell tend to be clearly about judgement and sorting and destinations. This is about none of those.

I think the "money verse" is ... "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves." Here we have a heart that is not true, not Christlike ... a clear Tare among the wheat or a Goat among the sheep waiting to do evil (the true desire of his heart). Such a "Christian" would be unfaithful and abuse others and will not be found ready, so that "Christian" will receive many punishments and be cut to pieces and be thrown among those that are honest in their unbelief, rather than deceptive in a false belief.

Parables should never be used to get main theology derived from them. as mainly just teaching one main point of emphasis!

 

[Oseas3]

I think Jesus is speaking in multiple ways of a binary state ...

What the NATURAL MAN thinks, it has nothing to do with what JESUS did think when was speaking by His parables. JESUS did speak in parables to them : because seeing, they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. - Strategy -

To think what JESUS did think, it is reserved only to the true disciples, those which have the MIND of Christ. The disciples came, and said unto JESUS: Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given UNTO YOU to know the MYSTERIES of the Kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. It means that he will withers away up like the fig tree that Jesus did curse.

 

[Edin Michael]

No, JESUS is not talking what you are talking He was talking, its FAKE. You have not the mind of Christ, neither is linked with Christ, by the way, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. Only and only who was born again, was born from the Spirit of God, has the mind of Christ , and understand and interpret correctly His words.

Your disguised spirit, spirit of darkeness, tries to interpret the words of my LORD, such as the Devil in the temptation. What you are doing is the same Satan did with JESUS in the temptation: Matt.4:v.6 - And Satan said unto JESUS, speaking of the Scriptures : "6 Satan said unto JESUS: "If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. - Psalms 91:v.11-12

You are a STUMBLING BLOCK.

Brother this is nothing more than an ad hominem, hence not a valid argument.
It would have been better if you had presented an alternate interpretation.

 

[Edin Michael]

All examples of praying for the living.

Forgive me if I'm taking your thread off course, but I see a link between "is their a purgatory" and "what can we do for people in purgatory."

I do agree, there is a link between the two. If there is no Purgatory, then praying for the dead is useless. But if there is some state called Purgatory, then praying for the dead is something that we should be discussing on. That is why for now I want to keep it at that. To see whether there is a Purgatory or not. Return of the master has always been seen as the Judgement Day by all theologians. Here we have two slaves who get eternal rewards (one being appointed as in charge of the household and the other cut into pieces) and we also have two slaves who get temporary punishment (beatings). To me it does seems that there is more than just heaven and hell (eternal states).

As for you pointing out that all of the prayers where for those living, that is a valid point. But aren't all who believe in Christ alive even if they died (John 11:25-26) and did not Paul say that not even death can separate us from the love of Christ (Romans 8:38). If we were to say that death separates us from the body of Christ then the declaration - Where, O death, is your victory?Where, O death, is your sting? - holds no meaning.

 

[Edin Michael]

No, for there is only heaven and the Lake of Fire, what we call Hell!

Then why the mention of the two slaves who receive only temporary punishment? Both Heaven and Hell would be eternal, not temporary.