DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Good grief, don't let us distract you!
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Puritanism
- Thread starter JonC
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I haven’t studied John Gill all that much so did he make statements he was a Calvinist? Or did he ( get that from his own scriptural study?
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I don't know if they "follow" Calvin. But a lot of Calvinists don't accept reformed Baptists as "reformed" because they don't take infant baptism as the sign of covenant theology. Also, we believe the Lord's supper is commemorative only. So it's common to be called, and a lot of Baptists prefer - Calvinistic Baptists. By the way, there is some intermixing in teaching with Presbyterians. You will see them speak in Baptist churches sometimes. I always thought it was kind of funny because we would bring in a speaker who if he wanted to, could not join our church!
Ooo, you are delving into Covenant Theology now … a Presbyterian platform. Infants need to be baptized because that’s the ceremonial circumcision thing they like fixating on… pure CT
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Yes. There are several active threads on here right now and I am reading all of them. Covenant theology is sort of new to me and you're right, as Baptists, we may study it in a class, but it's not really taught as integral to our teaching on salvation. Personally, I'm still in more of a model of the gospel being a proposal or "offer" and you have to make a decision. The Calvinistic influence would be a more thorough understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit in this and just how important it is, and how the sovereignty of God is driving all this.
I put offer in quotes because in some Calvinist and Primitive Baptist circles them's fight'en words. Once you get used to it you can figure out a lot of what a person believes by a few words or phrases they use. But I have found you can't just say, Calvinist or PB or Fundamentalist. You know, they don't discuss it much on here but there is a fairly large move toward charismatic sign gifts in Calvinistic Baptist churches. There's a lot going on. The commentaries and the theology is where you learn the differences, not by repeatedly putting up the same scriptures that everyone knows and interprets the way they want to anyway.
Yea I believe that proof texting never gets it done and the dissenters will not listen to your explanation anyway so until the HS makes it apparent to someone there is little point.
If I explain that for example …This occurred before the foundation of the world and is accomplished according to the will and purpose of God. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" (Ephesians 1:4).
a Calvinist, a Presbyterian, a Dutch Reformed will interpret that as “Election” … a Primitive & Particular Baptist will also say it’s The Election experience but just where is Justification happening? My wife’s early experience with theology comes from the Dutch Reformed so she is very understanding of Election but it was a confusing concept to me as an ex-Catholic… what do you mean not everyone can choose to believe… it just isn’t fair. As I grew up with a Bible in hand, systematic theology & the HS revealed to me another means of understanding how God was bringing me around. Now it makes more sense to me.
Now I don’t fault another’s understanding, we are all in different stages of understanding but I conclude that since we are all sinful that there are those still in rebellion. however them that want to be saved will be saved, and them who don’t will not be saved.
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Yes, really. People believing it to be true and sticking verses next to their beliefs doesn't mean their beliefs are actually biblical.
It's been a boring day.
Who? Me? I don't believe the elect even exist until they believe, much less that they are already justified.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
This is a good example. I tend to agree with you on this at least at the point of the choosing being of actual individuals. But I happen to know that the non-determinists and free willers on here take that verse to mean that the plan of everyone being in Christ is what was determined before the foundation of the world. They say that it was determined that those who came to Christ and believed in Him and thus would be "in Christ" are what that verse is about. We are only "chosen" in the sense that that is the way and method of salvation.
I'm only saying this because you always ask why I just don't post scripture. I really am not completely ignorant of scripture and I do value it more than commentaries but if everyone has a different view of the same exact verse, where do you go in a discussion? There isn't anything else to say. You have the option of repeating your own opinion or bringing in commentaries and theological papers.
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Prove it
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Sorry. I posted before I read your post 226. You kind of covered the same ground.
Well that pretty much leaves me out, I’m pretty much set on my belief system and I don’t see the point in arguing so I’m good. Now if I could find a Prim church in New Jersey I would join. There are scant Baptist churches here much less the peculiar children of God Primitive Baptists in this state. I was planning on moving to Florida where there is one me an my wife love but Covid and the economy have thrown up road blocks to our plans. Perhaps God has other plans for us.
Who’s to say it is or it isn’t? Genesis 18:25
Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Sub note: my wife and I… and my son are all in agreement that Savanah Georgia is a place of interest for retirement. Any comments ( good or bad ) are appreciated.
Well my Brother let me help you out with that... Brother Glen
primitive baptist churches in georgia - Google Search
Sure. I know my beliefs and I do not believe that the elect exist until saved and that justification does not occur before belief.
Scripture never speaks of the unsaved elect and does not speak of lost people being justified.
It is up to those who hold those beliefs to prove it.
I love Savannah GA. Savannah and Charleston are my favorite cities (both beautiful).
Savannah has great activities, the river district, a bunch of parks, Tybee Island, Savannah River Brewery, and a short drive to visit me.
It's also close to Beaufort SC (I mentioned that city earlier) and Hilton Head.
Charleston has the same, just a different environment. Same drive to visit me.
I love Savannah GA. Savannah and Charleston are my favorite cities (both beautiful).
Savannah has great activities, the river district, a bunch of parks, Tybee Island, Savannah River Brewery, and a short drive to visit me.
It's also close to Beaufort SC (I mentioned that city earlier) and Hilton Head.
Charleston has the same, just a different environment. Same drive to visit me.
Yeah EWF when you find a church, join and are baptized since you had an invite, just drive down and convert that old rascal... Brother Glen
You know I love you Jon!
You are blowing hot air again … plus you flip flop. What your describing is easy believeism. You are saved thru the HS…that called regeneration, then you are converted.Jesus spoke of this to Nicodemus when He said, "Ye must be born again" (John 3:7).
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